Any thoughts on Bobby Knight?

Sports isn't a popular topic here but Bobby Knight is a household name and I'd be surprised if anyone here hasn't heard of him. He passed away on Tuesday at age 83.

He was fired by Indiana University in 2000 after being there for 30 years after having some confrontations with students, and was extremely bitter about his dismissal. It took him 20 years (seemingly after dementia started to take its toll) for him to return to the university after refusing to do so for so many years. He wasn't a politically correct guy and the administration at the time wanted him gone.

I kinda liked the guy despite so many people hating him due to his personality (who else does that remind you of?). He didn't beat around the bush or kiss anyone's ass.

He did have a reputation for having anger management issues. Here are some funny clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5p9gi43Hns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chdg7wEGfYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y8n5n--wOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0TIugySUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS20_JesSq4 (wishes to be buried upside down so his critics can kiss his ass)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVhqHd9iDiE (wishing death on his former bosses)

He also supported Trump. Here are a couple of clips re that:

https://youtu.be/hWDGmkTKOtE?t=102 (bashes a CNN reporter who questions his support for Trump)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWDGmkTKOtE (at a Trump rally)

Despite the hate, the guy's teams had winning records every year and they won several championships. The vast majority of his students (90%+) graduated. He was never busted for cheating like many other coaches at the time.

What do you think? A guy who should be admired for not being a kiss ass and who told it like it was and who stood up people who he felt wronged him? An abusive asshole that should have been fired long before he was? Or a combination of the two?

Would things be better these days if the likes of Bobby Knight were around to mentor young people? Or should someone with his mentality remain a relic of the past?

I worked in Indiana in the late 1980s during peak Bobbie Knight with a lot of IU and Perdue grads in the departments where I worked, and everyone, even fans, readily acknowledged that he was a psycho asshole who threw chairs at people and the like.

Sorry, I only heard about Coach Knight as a walking human caricature.

Indiana seems to have this thing about basketball including genetic predisposition. Who was that like 8 ft tall white guy from French Lick, IN who was sort of a hometown hero and major basketball star? His name will come to me. Very recognizable.

I'm a flabby non sports type so my comments are entirely anecdotal. ;-)

Edit: LARRY BYRD

Geez, I'm getting f*cking senile.

Wow they were talking about him being psycho even back then? He lasted another decade plus before they shitcanned him. Apparently he was (or thought he was) bigger than the university.

Yeah, Larry Bird. He and Magic Johnson were the big names before Michael Jordan came along.

I'm into baseball but have never really been a basketball fan. That being said, I've always been fascinated by Knight and what he was able to get away with.

In the sports world, strong-willed personalities like that just don't exist anymore with everything being so politically correct. I didn't really mean to bring this up as a sports topic tho. The corporate world has gone in the same direction. And I think you've mentioned in the past a similar phenomenon in tech.

Love the guy or hate him, these old school hard asses that don't take shit from anyone are becoming an endangered species. Maybe it's a good thing but in other ways, maybe it's not such a good thing.

Collectivism is the name of the game today if you want a "career."

Yes especially if one has any aspirations of "moving up" or being "promoted".

I never knew who Bobby Knight was until he endorsed Trump. I guess he scared the teams into winning, otherwise they would've been the object of his wrath. He got results, but someone like him should be a relic of the past. There are other ways to achieve good results.

Trump may say outrageous things sometimes, but he's never been angry like that. The anger Bobby Knight has is just a no.

That's exactly what he did. He scared teams into winning. He got results and even admitted that is why he was able to get away with what he did. The university administration would turn a blind eye to it, at least until a more "woke" administration took over.

He did have high standards for himself as well. When he was fired from IU and took over at Texas Tech, he actually returned his salary to the university one year because his team underperformed.

someone like him should be a relic of the past. There are other ways to achieve good results.

True. I wouldn't want to work for or live next to a guy with his anger issues.

He had many fallings out with former assistant coaches, former players, and coaches that he was once friends with.

I worked in some draconian, authoritarian circumstances for some real assholes in my career.

I rarely found commisseration. The people in shitty environments hold the abuse like a badge of pride and you're automatically in the out group if you complain.

You can say something like "Bobby Knight should not have done X" and maybe he was a real creep, but people told me to find another job if I was as good as I said I was and didn't deserve the bad treatment.

So I don't give a crap. F*** people's feelings. I got shit on. I hope others do too, because I couldn't even change the local environment to protect myself, so why do I care if someone I don't even know gets shit on? It's karma, my suffering ought to be universal. :-D

Knight got results, made his employer millions of dollars in donations and endowments, as a result he had carte blanche, and this is the rule for almost all jobs in the economy.

And if the players felt they were abused they could go to another team if they felt they didn't deserve the treatment.

I worked in some draconian, authoritarian circumstances for some real assholes in my career.

How about teachers? I think you're around my dad's age and he's complained about these types teaching in schools back then.

I've had some authoritarian assholes bosses (who I stayed with far too long) and others who were insecure soy boys, which has its own issues. Good bosses are rare.

I rarely found commisseration. The people in shitty environments hold the abuse like a badge of pride and you're automatically in the out group if you complain.

Isn't that the truth? There are always people on the team that are willing to take it up the ass. For example, co-workers who sacrifice their personal time for the company without compensation.

You can say something like "Bobby Knight should not have done X" and maybe he was a real creep, but people told me to find another job if I was as good as I said I was and didn't deserve the bad treatment.

So I don't give a crap. F*** people's feelings. I got shit on. I hope others do too, because I couldn't even change the local environment to protect myself, so why do I care if someone I don't even know gets shit on? It's karma, my suffering ought to be universal.

LOL

You might get some satisfaction reading some of the recent Reddit threads. For awhile, there were mostly positive threads about how great the job market was. Over the past year or so, things have taken a turn for the worse and there are more and more threads like these re people giving up on tech:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/17qe7rs/how_are_more_people_not_giving_up

Knight got results, made his employer millions of dollars in donations and endowments, as a result he had carte blanche, and this is the rule for almost all jobs in the economy.

And if the players felt they were abused they could go to another team if they felt they didn't deserve the treatment.

THIS

They could have played somewhere else but wanted the prestige of playing there. The same can be said about certain companies in the tech industry.

It blows but that's life.

The ones who achieve (usually economic) results are the aristocracy of society.

A lot of Trump employees probably feel about Trump as IU players felt about Bobby Knight.

I bet Trump would be hard to work for because he's so demanding. I don't think has the nasty temper Bobby Knight does though.

I have found that in almost all organizations, "inexcusable" is circumstantial and extremely relative.

Also it's a function of your perceived value to the organization.

If you're a peon, almost anything except following orders is inexcusable. If it is perceived that you earn the organization tangible results, much less is inexcusable and you get away with more.

I'm just describing a facet of jungle law that seems to be widespread.

Granted, just because someone draws in millions of dollars in endowments doesn't mean they should act like a monster.

If it is perceived that you earn the organization tangible results, much less is inexcusable

I agree that this is a pragmatic reality of life.

"If you're a peon, almost anything except following orders is inexcusable. If it is perceived that you earn the organization tangible results, much less is inexcusable and you get away with more."

THIS

Yeah and loyalty is/was a huge thing with both of those guys.

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