How does one argue with a CENTRIST? (Public Board)

by IT guy, Saturday, September 05, 2020, 22:01 (19 days ago)
edited by IT guy, Saturday, September 05, 2020, 22:07

We all know what it's like to beat our heads against the wall while arguing with a leftist. It's not even worth the time. What about convincing people that are centrists what the left is trying to do? Many still don't seem to get it.

I posted previously about a debate I had recently with a family member (let's call him Steve) who recently retired (blue collar working guy) and believes that "the Republicans will cut Social Security" if they take control of Congress. When he was working, he was a blue collar working guy. He has bitched for decades about politics, the middle class being screwed by both parties, etc.

Steve seemed to be on Trump's side in 2016 (not a fully but for the most part) all the way up until Covid hit. He says that Trump is to blame for Covid spreading in the US. I argued that Trump stopped travel from China in January. He said it should have been done sooner and ALL air travel should have been stopped. He said it's bullshit that Trump is blaming China. I really didn't have much of an argument as we have no idea what the other side would have done.

I will admit that Trump was a bit lax at first but so was Fauci and Birx. Trump is no medical expert. He was listening to what Fauci and the others were telling him. I believe Fauci was downplaying the seriousness of the virus at first if I'm not mistaken. They were all mislead by China it seems.

It's not like Trump created the virus but Steve is acting like it's all Trump's fault. He is saying that Trump is a billionaire and "doesn't give a shit about us". I said neither does the other side. He agreed but really seems to think that it was Trump that dropped the ball and is to blame for all of this. To be fair, he also blamed Congress (Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, and the like) and said they all should be voted out.

Steve believes in free healthcare for all (or at Medicare people over 60). Biden claims he is for giving Medicare to people over 60. I think some who post here are in that age range. What do you all think of this? I'm not sure that is such a bad thing, especially with ageism the issue that it is in our society.

He also blames Trump for the riots continuing on, saying that can stop them - NOT be sending the military in but by giving money to the states and local governments. He says that local governments are requesting money from the federal government, and that Trump should give it to them. WTF? I try to explain that it's the liberal mayors that are baiting Trump into sending the troops in so then they can accuse him of abusing his power and attacking American citizens. He just talks over me and says Trump is pissing off too many people and "needs to be a leader". OTOH he bitches and moans about those "sons of bitches" actually involved in the riots so he's no fan of those people.

I bring up the China thing - the CCP paying off our politicians, CEOs, entertainment/sports industries, etc.. He says that it's a bunch of bullshit and they are no threat to us. I talk about manufacturing being moved to China and he said something about it being a global economy now. Okay but what about jobs? And I mention the outsourcing to India thing but he's not a tech guy so it goes over his head.

He's telling me that I'm getting my news from biased sources and that I'm being manipulated. I don't think I'm the one being manipulated. I think he's watching too much ABC, NBC, CNN, etc. He does admit that every news source is biased.

I bring up the whole woke thing and he's out of touch with that. It just goes over his head.

Biden is being portrayed as a "decent guy" and a family man who has empathy and cares about people. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzj2mo2Q57I

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tldr: Family member is centrist who is no fan of either side but thinks Trump is just as bad.

I thought I'd post this here not because anyone cares what any one person thinks (as he's not the only one I have run into that thinks along these lines) but I wonder how common this is. And then there are others who are done with politics and just don't care.

Are any of you running into this sort of thing with those who are not on either side?

Trump may have a harder time winning this election if there are many independents turning on him. Information is power and the media is very good at manipulation.

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You can't

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 00:35 (19 days ago) @ IT guy

IMO, your friend isn't very smart. He sounds like 100ish IQ average level.

He doesn't understand the desperation of both sides because again he's not smart and he's not paying attention. Your approaching him is like speaking a foreign language. Even the idea of doing your own independent fact checking of assertions by the media probably sounds like ridiculous overkill to him.

He probably has absolutely no idea of alternative sources of narratives. He believes whatever the American MSM spoon feeds him. And the MSM doesn't cover or adequately break down any causes that are important to the right such as trade policy, foreign policy viz. hostile major nations, the war against traditionalist information/news/culture, etc.

The MSM does an excellent job of keeping the proles uninformed and ignorant about the real stakes for this country.

This profile of benighted ignorance probably describes the middle 70% of the country. The broadcasters and the left adore their ignorance.

Insight and self reflection is for the bright. Give up.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

You can't

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 01:29 (19 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

IMO, your friend isn't very smart. He sounds like 100ish IQ average level.

Smart in some ways, not so smart in other ways. Yet thinks he knows everything and you can't tell him any different. If I try to make a point, he doesn't listen or will talk over me.

Until recently, he seemed to be on top of what's going on. I think he was actually a fan of Trump at one time. He read one of his books many years ago and was even a fan of the Apprentice. I wouldn't say he was a Trump "supporter" after running for President but was leaning in that direction. Last year, I recall him defending Trump when someone else in the room bashed him. He was even subscribed to Trump's Twitter, I think still is. He has changed his opinion over the past few months.

He doesn't understand the desperation of both sides because again he's not smart and he's not paying attention. Your approaching him is like speaking a foreign language.

Or paying too much attention to the wrong sources.

Even the idea of doing your own independent fact checking of assertions by the media probably sounds like ridiculous overkill to him.

Yeah. Anything like that would just go over his head.

He probably has absolutely no idea of alternative sources of narratives. He believes whatever the American MSM spoon feeds him. And the MSM doesn't cover or adequately break down any causes that are important to the right such as trade policy, foreign policy viz. hostile major nations, the war against traditionalist information/news/culture, etc.

He was around in the days of reputable news anchors like Walter Cronkite. Things have changed since then, of course. It's weird though....he does complain about the media and says they're all full of shit, says that Chuck Todd and those clowns are full of shit, but then repeats stuff that he sees on the news. He doesn't seem to know what to make of all this.

The MSM does an excellent job of keeping the proles uninformed and ignorant about the real stakes for this country.

Right.

It's almost like the media is trying to blackmail people - "vote blue or your cities will burn".

This profile of benighted ignorance probably describes the middle 70% of the country. The broadcasters and the left adore their ignorance.

Exactly. He complains to me about how Trump won't work with the Democrats and politicians used to work across the aisle, and used to always complain about both parties working together to screw the working man. Can't have it both ways.

Insight and self reflection is for the bright. Give up.

*sigh*

He was always one of the few I could discuss these topics with but you're right. I'm done beating my head against the wall.

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Fighting the perception of "authoritative" information is uphill

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 00:46 (19 days ago) @ IT guy
edited by Pepe the Programmer, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 00:53

Something that appears to be incomprehensible to the normie public (your friend is a dumbass normie, emphasis on the dumbass as in deliberately stupid) is the following set of notions:

- Humans of all levels of life, reputations, and roles can and will lie.
- "Professional" journalists can be exceptionally partisan and can color their reporting as such.
- News organizations are ratings and advertising driven. Disturbing information will drive away monetization by viewers.
- News organizations themselves can have clear political agendas.
- On the ground reporting by self funded bloggers, video reporters and content creators often penetrates the truth deeply in a way that's alien to large news organizations.

The normie believes that news organizations may have slight bias but also think "how bad can it be? They're supposed to be telling the truth and I can't possibly believe otherwise."

The normie listens intently to the ABC evening news telling him that Youtube content creators are unskilled stupid amateurs and far right racist monsters.

So you're fighting the the idea that big companies don't and will not lie, and that paying attention to any off brand information will turn the guy into a Nazi and will make him retarded just by listening.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

Fighting the perception of "authoritative" information is uphill

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 01:45 (19 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Something that appears to be incomprehensible to the normie public (your friend is a dumbass normie, emphasis on the dumbass as in deliberately stupid) is the following set of notions:

Dumbass? Maybe. Normie? He's not the type that normally drinks the kool aid.....which is why I'm surprised about the sudden change.

- Humans of all levels of life, reputations, and roles can and will lie.

- "Professional" journalists can be exceptionally partisan and can color their reporting as such.
- News organizations are ratings and advertising driven. Disturbing information will drive away monetization by viewers.
- News organizations themselves can have clear political agendas.
- On the ground reporting by self funded bloggers, video reporters and content creators often penetrates the truth deeply in a way that's alien to large news organizations.

Agreed on all counts. He even told me recently that there are no neutral sources of news. He knows better but is still letting himself be manipulated. Ugh. This is more frustrating than arguing with a leftist! You at least know they're completely lost.

There seems to be a deliberate play by the media to scare seniors into voting blue. The Dems used to play the Social Security card but now there's the Covid factor.

The normie believes that news organizations may have slight bias but also think "how bad can it be? They're supposed to be telling the truth and I can't possibly believe otherwise."

Yeah. He was around in the days of reputable anchors like Walter Kronkite. Of course things have changed since then. CBS is no longer the organization of Walter Kronkite and the Democratic Party is no longer the party of JFK or even (the 90s) Bill Clinton. I told him that the party is being hijacked by extremists but he doesn't seem to buy it. He doesn't even know who AOC is!

He already told me he's not voting. I wonder how many people that will vote Democrat that are ignorant.

The normie listens intently to the ABC evening news telling him that Youtube content creators are unskilled stupid amateurs and far right racist monsters.

So you're fighting the the idea that big companies don't and will not lie, and that paying attention to any off brand information will turn the guy into a Nazi and will make him retarded just by listening.

Yeah.

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Many normies, esp. bright ones are narcissist fuckheads

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 00:52 (19 days ago) @ IT guy
edited by Pepe the Programmer, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 01:15

The narcissist tends to flatter and self-confirm their past choices.

This is the type I've seen (almost always on) Facebook (choice of retards for sharing political thought today.)

The left wing guy I used to talk with who proudly proclaims that the NY Times is a bedrock institution going back 200 years and therefore he is subscribing to it and will accept no information that conflicts with it. He's so proud that he is associating himself proudly with this venerable and completely holy organization.

The idiot named John Masterson on an old board I used to run who told his followers on Facebook that he had adopted Reuters as his sole source of completely reliable, unbiased, factual news and viewpoints.

The centrist types, like these two guys I know who have above average to substantially superior intellect in some dimensions, tend to worship authoritative sole sources of information.

The lefties, like the ass holes on Iritu, you may have noticed, tend to also be quite narcissistic about holding themselves above the animals in non coast regions and they also quote the same mainstream sources that the normies believe it.

There's much Dunning-Kruger effect in action with the abeyance of normies and the left to mainstream sources.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

Many normies, esp. bright ones are narcissist fuckheads

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 02:00 (19 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

The narcissist tends to flatter and self-confirm their past choices.

I'd say narcissist is an accurate term. He thinks he knows everything and everyone else is full of shit.

This is the type I've seen (almost always on) Facebook (choice of retards for sharing political thought today.)

He would never get on Facebook though, and is not a fan of social media. He's definitely not a fan of the rioters or the mayors of these cities. He's a free speech and 2nd amendment guy. He's on the right side of history, for the most part, but doesn't realize it. That's what's frustrating about it.

He watches ABC, NBC, CBS, etc, bitches about the news anchors saying they're full of shit, bitches about left wing know it all celebrities, and then attacks the guy who's fighting against these entities, saying that he's just as bad if not worse.

*facepalm*

The left wing guy I used to talk with who proudly proclaims that the NY Times is a bedrock institution going back 200 years and therefore he is subscribing to it and will accept no information that conflicts with it. He's so proud that he is associating himself proudly with this venerable and completely holy organization.

The idiot named John Masterson on an old board I used to run who told his followers on Facebook that he had adopted Reuters as his sole source of completely reliable, unbiased, factual news and viewpoints.

I cannot name one unbiased news source.

The narcissist tends to flatter and self-confirm their past choices.

Yep. It's all about the past.

They're in denial that things have changed and are not sure what to think.

He seems to think that Joe Biden is cut from the same cloth as FDR.

The centrist types, like these two guys I know who have above average to substantially superior intellect in some dimensions, tend to worship authoritative sole sources of information.

The lefties, like the ass holes on Iritu, you may have noticed, tend to also be quite narcissistic about holding themselves above the animals in non coast regions and they also quote the same mainstream sources that the normies believe it.

There's much Dunning-Kruger effect in action with the abeyance of normies and the left to mainstream sources.

Right.

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Lastly, Pervasive Laziness

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 01:17 (19 days ago) @ IT guy

Trying to figure out the "real" story behind the headlines is too much work and requires critical reasoning capabilities that most of the public simply doesn't possess.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

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You Need To Inject Ideas Into Their Brain - Poisonous Ideas

by Hillarys Colon, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 01:35 (19 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

You have to probe them to find a weakness and than go from there. I have successfully turned many people. You can't do it by confrontation or brute force. The best way is to inject doubt into their brain and than water it.

An example:

IT dork whom is Mr. Libertarian. All IT people are aware of the H1B to some degree. The best way to crack that nut is via saying things like this:

Do you think its fair that Americans have to compete with foreigners on temporary visas for work in their own country?
How would you feel if you got laid off and replaced by an H1B?

Leftie retard:

How would you feel if you were beaten and robbed by blacks?
How would you feel if a business you worked your entire life on was burned and destroyed during a riot?
What if you someone in your family was killed by antifa?

Realize that the first time you say something like this to them they will reject it automatically. But now the little seed has been planted in their brain and it won't go away. You want to inject just enough doubt into their brain that it cause friction in their thought processes. Than you water it by bringing it up periodically.

Usually by the time I am done, they have turned 180 degrees.

You Need To Inject Ideas Into Their Brain - Poisonous Ideas

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 02:18 (19 days ago) @ Hillarys Colon

That is an effective strategy.

The family member I referred to above said something similar to me.

He was bashing Trump for mishandling Covid. I argued with him and he asked how I would feel if I lost someone close to me to Covid.

The reality is that nobody knows how things would have turned out if the Dems were in charge. Maybe better, maybe a lot worse. Who knows? I don't think it's reasonable to put the blame on Trump.

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Bring Up Fauci To Him

by Hillarys Colon, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 08:54 (18 days ago) @ IT guy

Mention that the grand wizard of the virus Fauci has been in the govmt for decades long before Trump and how he has fucked up everything he has touched going back to Aids. There are tons of articles about Foci's fuck ups yet he is still in the govmt.

Mention that Fauci has served both Democrat and Republican administrations. Also mention the connections between Fauci, Soros and Gates.

I did

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 11:52 (18 days ago) @ Hillarys Colon

He seems to believe that Dr. Fauci is credible. I have explained to him that Fauci has been there since Reagan, and Fauci had it wrong at the beginning. I told him about the interviews that Fauci did in the early stages of the virus....he then challenged me as if I were getting fake news. It's not news.....it's reality. There are interviews in the early days where Fauci says that the virus would not be a threat. If I do enough digging, I am sure I could find the clips.

I don't think he even knows who George Soros is. If I explained any of that, he would more than likely be dismissive, like with the China thing. I don't think he knows much about Gates other than he's the founder of Microsoft and does charity stuff.

Get this. We were talking about the Black Lives Matter thing. It's all over sporting events now. On the surface, BLM looks like an innocent way for black athletes to get their point across. There's nothing wrong with the actual name of the group. Who is going to dispute that black lives matter? Yet he seems to think that it's merely just that (a figure of speech or movement) and not a marxist organization. When I mentioned it is a communist organization, he asked where I read that and again insinuated that I'm getting bogus news from somewhere.

It seems like a lot of people are in denial and don't want to hear about this stuff or dismiss it was conspiracy theory.

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I did

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 12:20 (18 days ago) @ IT guy

Well, "is a communist organisation" is a general slur that has been cast at how many groups now? People just subconsciously dismiss that, I think.

I like to keep claims specific. For example, "the chick who founded BLM is a communist". Then dig up the clip where she says, Hi, I founded BLM and I'm a communist.

I did

by IT guy, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 00:04 (17 days ago) @ ,ndo

Good point

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Slurs and Tropes

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 01:24 (17 days ago) @ ,ndo

Well, "is a communist organisation" is a general slur that has been cast at how many groups now? People just subconsciously dismiss that, I think.

People within a particular movement have their tropes - beliefs and narratives that they are familiar with and which form their context for processing new information. This stuff also bonds the members socially.

Most of us talk in the "trope-ese" of our respective movement. The lefties have Cheetoh Drumpf. We have the permanently aggrieved intersectionalist. We make up cute names and short hand for these concepts.

Outsiders have no clue what the fuck we're on about.

When you're communicating to a member of the opposing movement, or a non-member of any movement, most of us will tend to fall into using those tropes as argumentation points ("BLM is a radical Marxist organization.") You have to unwind your argument from the trope and approach the person like they're a man from Mars. And like ,ndo said the use of the trope itself may just instantly discredit anything you say.

Informing others outside your group is extremely difficult. Most of us fail miserably at it.

I'm not even sure that when social conditions are as toxic as they are now, that it's possible or practical to do so.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

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Stupid is as stupid does

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 12:45 (18 days ago) @ Hillarys Colon
edited by Pepe the Programmer, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 12:59

You guys are thinking about this problem all wrong.

It's really systemic stupidity at work and attempts to fight it are doomed to failure.

It's much more extensive to fight than red pilling someone about some particular fact or area such as Fauci or BLM being terrorist and anti-everything good.

Thought of any kind is the ultimate DIY project. The subject has to be willing to entertain contrary examples, and this guy and people like him aren't.

What always happens with the stupid normie or sheep citizen type is that suppose you do educate him on some inconsistency of ethics or morality and they actually accept it. They tend to view the problem area as a one-off that indicates nothing meaningful.

Suppose you educate this guy on BLM the organization and its roots. He may accept those facts. But in his eyes everything else is as it was before and BLM is just a one-off that signifies nothing.

The real issue is that the person is a normie - a non-contrarian - someone who doesn't want to bother to think in a penetrating way. The media, the culture, and even the educational system in the past have all done a great job on him.

I think someone of normal IQ could be reached but you would have to make available some rhetoric to them - an article of under 2000 words, say - that lays out a comprehensible case that would make their brain get engaged so that they question their reality.

Most of us just don't have that talent to lead a person from sheep to thinking human being. And questioning your reality is a very high bar.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

True

by Dennis ⌂ @, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 17:29 (18 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

It's really systemic stupidity at work and attempts to fight it are doomed to failure.

I have often wondered why is it that smart people don't realize this. Somehow they are convinced that all one has to do is to put forth the facts and somebody will see things in the same light as they do. What they never seem to realize is that the normie just simply does not have the cognitive capability for thinking beyond the few basic things like food, sex etc. Their planning and conceptualization rarely extends more than a few days into the future and their overall memories don't last beyond a few weeks.

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Beyond misanthropy: https://atlantis5.home.blog/ , Real Minority: https://realminority.wordpress.com/

The Medicare for all Fantasy

by JoFrance, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 20:28 (18 days ago) @ Dennis

I think "Steve" really has TDS. It has clouded his thinking. That and listening to the MSM. I know a few people like that and really, there is no arguing with them because they're dug in on what they believe. I still try.

My best arguments with people like them is to tell them I always vote on policy and then I go into the policies of the Dem party. Amnesty for all illegals. Free healthcare, paid by taxpayers, for them. Open borders to anyone who wants to come. Abolish the police and ICE. Get rid of fracking and fossil fuels, by 2030. Higher taxes for all. It would be interesting to see "Steve" say he supports those policies.

As for Medicare, I've been on it for two years now. It isn't all free. Part A for hospitals pays 80% at no charge. Part B costs about $135 a month. You need to buy a supplement plan to cover Medicare shortfalls. Parts F and G provide that, but they cost about $150 a month and as you age, the price goes up. None of this covers your drugs. You need a Part D plan and those will cover the cost of generic drugs. If you need something outside of that, like a brand name drug or something not on the list, you have to fight to have it covered. They may not do it. My part D plan costs $75 a month because I take a brand name drug that other plans will not cover. It could be as low as $12 a month if you take just generic drugs.
Anyway, its a big ball of shit. There are Medicare Part C plans, but they are HMOs and you're restricted to a network of doctors. You can have basic drug and doctor's visits. Sometimes this doesn't work for people with a lot of health problems. They need to be able to go out of network.

Medicare for all would degrade the care that seniors get and IMO, the Dem party wants it that way. You're a drain on the system if you're old or sick. They might as well start sending us oldies to Carousel, like in Logan's Run. Look how they treated seniors in Democrat run states. They didn't care about you if you were in a nursing home or rehab center.

Here's the funniest thing. My brother hates Trump and thinks he's so unpresidential, blah blah. I still hear about the "grabbem by the pu..." tape and how that is so bad. I told him I can't believe that would bother him being that he was such a Howard Stern fan for years. I told him I really don't vote on personality, only on policy.

The Medicare for all Fantasy

by IT guy, Monday, September 07, 2020, 13:20 (17 days ago) @ JoFrance

I think "Steve" really has TDS. It has clouded his thinking. That and listening to the MSM. I know a few people like that and really, there is no arguing with them because they're dug in on what they believe. I still try.

He didn't have it until recently. I remember him DEFENDING Trump a couple years ago when another person badmouthed him. His girlfriend has TDS, can't stand him, maybe he's been spending too much time with her in retirement. Heh.

My best arguments with people like them is to tell them I always vote on policy and then I go into the policies of the Dem party. Amnesty for all illegals. Free healthcare, paid by taxpayers, for them. Open borders to anyone who wants to come. Abolish the police and ICE. Get rid of fracking and fossil fuels, by 2030. Higher taxes for all. It would be interesting to see "Steve" say he supports those policies.

He doesn't (except for the healthcare thing). That's the frustrating thing about all this. If he votes, he'd be voting against his own best interest.

As for Medicare, I've been on it for two years now. It isn't all free. Part A for hospitals pays 80% at no charge. Part B costs about $135 a month. You need to buy a supplement plan to cover Medicare shortfalls. Parts F and G provide that, but they cost about $150 a month and as you age, the price goes up. None of this covers your drugs. You need a Part D plan and those will cover the cost of generic drugs. If you need something outside of that, like a brand name drug or something not on the list, you have to fight to have it covered. They may not do it. My part D plan costs $75 a month because I take a brand name drug that other plans will not cover. It could be as low as $12 a month if you take just generic drugs.

Anyway, its a big ball of shit. There are Medicare Part C plans, but they are HMOs and you're restricted to a network of doctors. You can have basic drug and doctor's visits. Sometimes this doesn't work for people with a lot of health problems. They need to be able to go out of network.

Thanks for the info. Didn't realize how all that worked.

Medicare for all would degrade the care that seniors get and IMO, the Dem party wants it that way. You're a drain on the system if you're old or sick. They might as well start sending us oldies to Carousel, like in Logan's Run. Look how they treated seniors in Democrat run states. They didn't care about you if you were in a nursing home or rehab center.

Steve has the outdated mentality that it's the Democrats that care about seniors and the Republicans want to take away their benefits.

Here's the funniest thing. My brother hates Trump and thinks he's so unpresidential, blah blah. I still hear about the "grabbem by the pu..." tape and how that is so bad. I told him I can't believe that would bother him being that he was such a Howard Stern fan for years.

I told him I really don't vote on personality, only on policy.

EXACTLY
I don't are how abrasive or arrogant the guy is....as long as the job is getting done.

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The absolute hardest, most challenging show stopping thing for most humans

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Monday, September 07, 2020, 04:01 (18 days ago) @ Dennis

Is personal development.

Change.

Revising one's assumptions.

Developing self-awareness.

The majority of humans stay in their lane. One mode of thought, an unchanging set of beliefs for their entire adult lives.

I believe that the vast majority of people view the revision of their opinions as weakness and failure. So they refuse to entertain change whatsoever.

Most people are pathetic, weak, disappointing, single minded, rut-bound losers.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

THIS

by IT guy, Monday, September 07, 2020, 13:14 (17 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

The family member that I am referring to doesn't seem to believe in personal development. I think he did at one time thinks it's no longer worth the bother it seems. He no longer reads books, even though he has the time.

He is bitter and badmouths people that have more money than he has. He worked his ass off, which I give him credit for, but never really learned how to manage his money.

He has little self awareness. Everything is somebody else's fault.

His problem isn't believing everything he sees on media. He doesn't believe ANY of it (except for what fits into his world view while discarding everything else) and thinks he knows it all.

He was trying to argue with me that beer is no worse than bottled water to justify why he drinks what he does (not an alcoholic but more than he should).

You know the thing that came out over the weekend about Trump calling soldiers "losers" and "suckers"? Guess who bought it - hook, line, and sinker? I asked him if he believes that bullshit and he said yes and then went into the McCain thing.

Somebody in the media came up with this, knowing that people were going to link those alleged comments with what Trump said about McCain.

Here is how our conversation went:

Steve: I can't support the guy knowing what he said about the military.

Me: You believe that bullshit? The media....

Steve (talking over me): Yeah I believe it!

He then went into Trump avoiding Vietnam and the McCain comments and was very pissed off as he went into a rant. Whoever made this up knew damn well that many people would buy it, making those connections.

I got him to admit that Trump has done a good job keeping us out of a war (saying that's the only good thing he's done) but he says it won't last if Trump keeps screwing with China.

Most of us just don't have that talent to lead a person from sheep to thinking human being. And questioning your reality is a very high bar.

Yep. I give up.

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Case Study - Jordan Peterson's Writings and Talks

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Monday, September 07, 2020, 13:23 (17 days ago) @ IT guy

I love this guy. Brilliant. Down to earth. Based. Incredibly insightful. A fantastic philosopher and student/teacher of human nature.

Look at the viciousness of the left's hatred of JP.

JP's entire ethos is self awareness and getting your own house in order.

The left's hate of JP indicates how anathema self awareness and honest ethical self examination is to most of society.

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Case Study - Jordan Peterson's Writings and Talks

by IT guy, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 00:10 (17 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Heard a lot about the guy but tend to avoid anything trendy as well as the Tony Robbins types.
Usually if I hear a lot about something or someone, I tend to run in the other direction. Heh. Your comments have me curious though. I'll check out his content.

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Case Study - Jordan Peterson's Writings and Talks

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 01:20 (17 days ago) @ IT guy

JP's observations are eternal truths. I believe in a few decades (if a semblance of society still exists) he'll be regarded on a par with great writers and psychologists. Well worth watching.

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Peterson definitely says sensible things

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 02:02 (17 days ago) @ IT guy

He's well worth having a look at.

Peterson definitely says sensible things

by Historian, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 11:39 (16 days ago) @ ,ndo

He's a psychologist but he's more of a philosopher. On youtube somewhere are some 1+ hr long fireside chats he has with other academics where they sit in big chairs in his living room and talk about super interesting ultra geeky philosophical concepts. He also has some interesting books. I didn't read the 12 rules but I read one of his earlier ones, I think they had to do with religion and psychology or something. Well it's the one where he talks about being a prison psychologist and he decides to wear a CAPE and knee high boots to the prison to meet with killers, and he has some insane reason for that. It was quite funny.

He occasionally goes off the rails though because he does have some mental instability. So his followers that just go with everything he says probably should show some caution rather than do that. You have to sort of tell when he's going nuts in an interview and just enjoy but don't take it all seriously.

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Peterson definitely says sensible things

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 12:34 (16 days ago) @ Historian

Yeah, JP will start crying or something over a point he's making that is important to him.

I agree he's totally a philosopher first and foremost who weaves those ideas into observations about human nature. He has really fascinating notions about good & evil, personal responsibility and growth, and the ability to change.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

EXACTLY

by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 02:01 (19 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer
edited by IT guy, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 02:05

They just don't have the attention span, or the willingness to dig deeper.

Another thing....

If an issue doesn't affect them personally, they don't care.

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