Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue (Main Board)

by IT guy, Monday, June 22, 2020, 00:30 (13 days ago)

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/21/trump-its-common-sense-to-cut-immigration-while-30m-americans-are-unemployed/

During an interview with Fox News’ John Roberts on Saturday evening, Trump said reducing immigration by halting foreign visa programs is a “common sense” approach to the nation’s mass unemployment problem caused by the Chinese coronavirus crisis.

“I think it’s going to make a lot of people very happy,” Trump said of his plan to expand his current executive order that halted new employment-based green cards from being issued to foreign workers.

“It’s common sense, to be honest with you, it’s common sense,” Trump said.

The plan has overwhelming support from overall Americans and, specifically, from swing-state voters.

In April, nearly 80 percent of Americans said they wanted immigration halted to the U.S. during the crisis and amid mass unemployment. This month, majorities between 55 to 85 percent of voters in ten swing states said they want less immigration at the moment.


Trump said there will be “very little” exemptions in the expansion of the order, and hinted that he may take further action in the future to cut more immigration.

“Very little exclusion and they’re pretty tight,” Trump said. “And we may even go very tight for a period of time.”

As Breitbart News reported, Trump is expected to sign the expansion of the order within the next week. The expansion will halt new foreign workers arriving in the U.S. to take jobs on H-1B visas, H-2B visas, J-1 visas, and L-1 visas.

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It's not enough but it's a start.

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Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Monday, June 22, 2020, 01:46 (13 days ago) @ IT guy

I thought "bravo" when I read about this. But I also see a dark side. Are Americans actually up to performing this work at the scale that H1B has provided? Most developers and IT people I know over the age of 45 have left the industry. H1B has resulted in tech professional Americans becoming deskilled and relegated to paperwork and QA and customer and liason roles.

I know that the mantra "Americans are goddamned fucking dumbasses who don't deserve these jobs that have been earmarked for blessed Indians" was prevalent up until maybe five years ago. Carly Fiorina based her entire career reputation on shitting on American workers and it kind of worked well for her for a very long time.

Can he do this decisively without congress being involved? Congresspeople have been sucking at the altar of tech business for decades. It amazes me that doing this could be this "simple".

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

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The Ones Here Will Stay, No New Ones

by Hillarys Colon, Monday, June 22, 2020, 07:25 (13 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Every year we get a new bumper crop, this will end for a while. But it doesn't mean its forever.

Even though they may stop it for a while does not mean its over permanently and the ones here are not being deported.

So.... that means short term changes will be minimal.

But it could also mean that the law of supply and demand may kick in at some point.

We shall see...

Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by FSK, Monday, June 22, 2020, 11:19 (13 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Are Americans actually up to performing this work at the scale that H1B has provided? Most developers and IT people I know over the age of 45 have left the industry.

You have it backwards. Employers don't hire H1bs because American programmers are washed up at age 45. Employers don't hire over age 45 precisely because H1bs are available in large numbers.

If there wasn't an unlimited supply of H1bs available, employers would be forced to consider older Americans.

An H1b candidate is more attractive than the experienced American worker, even when the H1b is getting paid a little more and not as skilled. That's because the H1b has indentured servant status and can't switch jobs easily.

It is a problem. If you're a talented student, going into software can be an idiot move with outsourcing and H1bs. Over time, this means there isn't a pool of qualified American workers. For a lot of interviews, I go there and everyone is Indian.

Here is an example. I go on an interview and they don't make me an offer. I look them up on the Internet, and they hired 10 H1bs last year (in a 100 person company). If the H1bs weren't available, they probably would have made me an offer.

Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by Dennis ⌂ @, Monday, June 22, 2020, 12:31 (13 days ago) @ FSK


An H1b candidate is more attractive than the experienced American worker, even when the H1b is getting paid a little more and not as skilled. That's because the H1b has indentured servant status and can't switch jobs easily.

I have been puzzled by this. H1b are not paid significantly less than their US citizen counterparts is my guess, so why are they preferred? One is the reason that you mentioned i.e cannot switch jobs easily, the other I think is the willingness to work extra hours which in the eyes of the average manager/interviewer equates to more productivity. Another one is plain discrimination, the sheer number of Indians means that they just hire their own kind which happen to most of the H1Bs

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Beyond misanthropy: https://atlantis5.home.blog/ , Real Minority: https://realminority.wordpress.com/

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I'm just saying

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Monday, June 22, 2020, 12:53 (13 days ago) @ FSK

H1B over the last 20+ years has absolutely gutted IT. IT in the US is owned by Indians at all levels of employment. The native born talent pool may just not be there.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

I'm just saying

by JoFrance, Monday, June 22, 2020, 19:12 (13 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

The change to the H1-b visa program is permanent:

"For example, Disney hired an Indian company in 2012 to take over various jobs, including Disney’s software jobs in Orlando. The Indian company, HCL, asked for and got the H-1Bs for Disney by swearing only that the new H-1Bs would not displace other HCL workers in the United States — regardless of the intended harmful impact on Americans.

“We’re going to bring that to an end, to a screeching halt,” Cuccinelli said. “The president has ordered us to close that loophole. We’re going to do that by regulation. Again, this will be a permanent change.”

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/06/22/donald-trump-sets-regulation-to-end-cheap-labor-h-1bs/

It looks like Congress is not needed to make this change (Good!) which should have been made a long time ago to protect the American IT industry. Neither party has ever cared to do it because American workers didn't matter (only Fortune 500 companies did), but Trump has seized the moment to make these needed changes and there is no valid argument against it given the unemployment in this country.

What a sweet deal the Indian outsourcing companies had for a very long time, all with the blessing of our elected leaders. Bastards, all of them.

I think this will revitalize the American IT industry and American's will step up to fill the need. Companies may even have to offer on-the-job training for the right candidates like they did a very long time ago. Older workers that have been sidelined may suddenly find their skills in demand again.

Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by IT guy, Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 00:25 (11 days ago) @ FSK

If there wasn't an unlimited supply of H1bs available, employers would be forced to consider older Americans.

Yep. And you know who else they would have to consider? African Americans. Steve Bannon made the following statement on a recent podcast - "If George Floyd had a well paying manufacturing job, he would have never been in the situation he was in." A similar statement could apply to other blacks who are underemployed. There's so much talk about reforming the police, reparations, more affirmative action, and all that. How about increasing economic opportunity for blacks and promoting personal responsibility?

An H1b candidate is more attractive than the experienced American worker, even when the H1b is getting paid a little more and not as skilled. That's because the H1b has indentured servant status and can't switch jobs easily.

Unfortunately, this is true. Sounds like slave labor to me.

It is a problem. If you're a talented student, going into software can be an idiot move with outsourcing and H1bs. Over time, this means there isn't a pool of qualified American workers. For a lot of interviews, I go there and everyone is Indian.

Many young people are making good money....but there's an expiration date.

Here is an example. I go on an interview and they don't make me an offer. I look them up on the Internet, and they hired 10 H1bs last year (in a 100 person company). If the H1bs weren't available, they probably would have made me an offer.

True

Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by Dennis ⌂ @, Monday, June 22, 2020, 12:20 (13 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Most developers and IT people I know over the age of 45 have left the industry.

Any idea where they leave to? I have wondered that.

H1B has resulted in tech professional Americans becoming deskilled and relegated to paperwork and QA and customer and liason roles.

All it takes is about 6 months to become skilled again. The problem is that no one wants to wait that long.

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Beyond misanthropy: https://atlantis5.home.blog/ , Real Minority: https://realminority.wordpress.com/

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Many Tried To Change Careers

by Hillarys Colon, Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 11:07 (12 days ago) @ Dennis

Knew people that did the following:

-One got a masters in marketing. Ask me if he was able to get a job in marketing at 40 years old. NOPE. Back to IT.

-One got a masters in accounting. Both accounting and finance have H1Bs just like IT. Back to IT.

-One tried to start a PC business targeting small businesses, doctors, dentists. Clients are cheap and dont want to pay and second the space already has tons of people in it. Failed. Back to IT.

-One transitioned out of IT into some some marketing area via the hookup. Survived but eventually punched out and got trained in fitness and personal training. Is much happier. Still in it and was doing quite well until the pandemic.

-One left IT to go into general contracting and home repair. Did well as he knew what he was doing as had prior background in construction due to his family. Still in construction and owns a business. Now he is the boss.

-Many transitioned into IT PM/BA roles.

Many Tried To Change Careers

by IT guy, Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 00:33 (11 days ago) @ Hillarys Colon

Knew people that did the following:

One got a masters in marketing. Ask me if he was able to get a job in marketing at 40 years old. NOPE. Back to IT.

Interesting.

One got a masters in accounting. Both accounting and finance have H1Bs just like IT. Back to IT.

I actually thought about this. I recall a guy on crazyontap (I think his name was Peter) who was on this very path. My dad suggested it as well. With that being said, I'm glad I decided not go this route. It more than likely would have been a waste of time and money.

One tried to start a PC business targeting small businesses, doctors, dentists. Clients are cheap and dont want to pay and second the space already has tons of people in it. Failed. Back to IT.

This is another suggestion that my dad made. After doing research and seeing this exact type of feedback from people who have been burned, I decided it's better to just have a job if working in this field.

One transitioned out of IT into some some marketing area via the hookup. Survived but eventually punched out and got trained in fitness and personal training. Is much happier. Still in it and was doing quite well until the pandemic.

Now this is something I've actually seriously considered as I have interest in the fitness industry. I have read about others' experiences and this is not a recession-proof career. Might be a bit age-ist as well. Haven't completely ruled it out though. Is he still getting by or did the pandemic do him in for the time being? Seems that the gyms have reopened in most states.

One left IT to go into general contracting and home repair. Did well as he knew what he was doing as had prior background in construction due to his family. Still in construction and owns a business. Now he is the boss.

How old was he when he made the transition? Seems this does require prior experience or family connections. I can't see someone 40+ successfully transitioning to this field or any trade, but stranger things have happened.

Many transitioned into IT PM/BA roles.

That's kinda where I'm at - in a BA/database/software dev/IT support hybrid role. The money isn't lucrative but it's a living.

Trump is FINALLY doing something about the H1B issue

by IT guy, Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 00:19 (11 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

I thought "bravo" when I read about this. But I also see a dark side. Are Americans actually up to performing this work at the scale that H1B has provided? Most developers and IT people I know over the age of 45 have left the industry.

What types of jobs did they transition to? Perhaps some of them would be willing to return if opportunities exist.

H1B has resulted in tech professional Americans becoming deskilled and relegated to paperwork and QA and customer and liason roles.

So basically they have "dumbed down" the Americans. I can certainly relate to that. In the company I work in, a lot of the pure techie work was outsourced. Those of us at the level I'm at are doing some coding and technical work, but much of our work is coordinating stuff with vendors and offshored people. I once worked with a senior-level guy at a previous job who said "the longer I work here, the dumber I get". At the time, I laughed it off as a joke but eventually realized that there was much truth in that. I am sure there are many IT people who are working in jobs they are overqualified for or beneath their capabilities.

I know that the mantra "Americans are goddamned fucking dumbasses who don't deserve these jobs that have been earmarked for blessed Indians" was prevalent up until maybe five years ago. Carly Fiorina based her entire career reputation on shitting on American workers and it kind of worked well for her for a very long time.

It didn't help her beat Trump tho. :)

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