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Do Liberals Never Argue from Good Faith? (Public Board)

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 23:12 (17 days ago)
edited by Pepe the Programmer, Tuesday, September 08, 2020, 23:19

IOW: are liberals today just plain lying game playing cunts?

I believe the qualified empirical answer to this question is "yes" in the present day 2020. In other words liberals today consistently disregard facts of record, evidence of personal character or the lack of it, and matters of conscience in their argumentation. They focus on destruction of people or institutions they dislike and hold up nebulous new/emerging causes as the only principles to be discussed.

I think it's been this way since perhaps the start of the first Obama term. Prior to that, if you recall, conservatives and Republicans seemed to virtue signal incessantly about patriotism and the need for the American Century and in favor of sacrifice of others as the greatest good.

In 2004 conservatives were the lying self righteous cunts. Liberals were the somewhat oppressed truth tellers.

Today:

The main difference I see in argumentation styles between the two is logic and reason.

Generally, a well formed argument from a conservative is fairly concisely stated, usually involves only a few core principles or ideas, and is easy to understand.

An argument or a response to argument from a liberal always seems to involve personality destruction and blame shifting as tactics. Intersectional logic (IE: kissing the ass more fervently the closer it is to a collection of minorities or oppressed groups) and adjacency of an idea or a person to an undesired and nominally bad belief or person results in immediate blame ("JOE ROGAN A NAZI FOR INTERVIEWING RICHARD SPENCER REEE".)

Facts that a liberal uses in a contentious argument are often deliberately skewed, cherry picked, originate from sources with the same agenda, and/or are fabrications.

I've been observing the arguments that user Morons, a conservative poster on Iritu, makes to the idiots over there. All of their arguments come down to "Morons is stupid and a Nazi". If they don't want to entertain a fact he quotes they just call him an asshole.

We here would at least fact check the assertion as long as it wasn't a self evidently stupid leftie trope.

A sample of the Welcome Wagon:

https://iritu.com/read/tErle6A7nEcu?posts=17
https://iritu.com/read/oAUt-IB4Z_GL
https://iritu.com/read/n_-nO4j-JvrG
https://iritu.com/read/RRWpQMVWthob
https://iritu.com/read/Yhqnif6CAHC_
https://iritu.com/read/OZ4QdryMLcgV

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

Do Liberals Never Argue from Good Faith?

by IT guy, Wednesday, September 09, 2020, 00:34 (17 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

are liberals today just plain lying game playing cunts?

Yes.

BTW how can you be so sexist? Just kidding.

I believe the qualified empirical answer to this question is "yes" in the present day 2020. In other words liberals today consistently disregard facts of record, evidence of personal character or the lack of it, and matters of conscience in their argumentation. They focus on destruction of people or institutions they dislike and hold up nebulous new/emerging causes as the only principles to be discussed.

They're also good at projection. They accuse others of doing the exact same thing that they are guilty of.

For example, they're looking to "steal the election". They then accuse the other side of trying to steal the election. They have no interest in passing stimulus package because they are playing politics. They accuse the other side of playing politics. They say that there is no point in debating with the other side because they're brainwashed and won't listen. Yet they won't listen or compromise nor will they deviate from the party line. And so on.

I think it's been this way since perhaps the start of the first Obama term. Prior to that, if you recall, conservatives and Republicans seemed to virtue signal incessantly about patriotism and the need for the American Century and in favor of sacrifice of others as the greatest good.

After 9/11 for example. I recall the country being deeply divided after the 2000 "hanging chad" election. 9/11

Let's say that China or Iran or North Korea were behind some type of an attack on the US (assuming Corona wasn't biological warfare). Would everyone come together like post 9/11? Or would one side be blaming the other and pointing fingers? I think we know the answer to that.

The main difference I see in argumentation styles between the two is logic and reason.

Generally, a well formed argument from a conservative is fairly concisely stated, usually involves only a few core principles or ideas, and is easy to understand.

An argument or a response to argument from a liberal always seems to involve personality destruction and blame shifting as tactics.

It never fails! They always resort to name calling when they have no argument.

Facts that a liberal uses in a contentious argument are often deliberately skewed, cherry picked, originate from sources with the same agenda, and/or are fabrications.

Yep. And that's another thing they accuse the other side of doing.

I've been observing the arguments that user Morons, a conservative poster on Iritu, makes to the idiots over there. All of their arguments come down to "Morons is stupid and a Nazi". If they don't want to entertain a fact he quotes they just call him an asshole.

Some things never change.

Do Liberals Never Argue from Good Faith?

by JoFrance, Wednesday, September 09, 2020, 20:59 (16 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Liberals today are just brainwashed liars. When they start to lose an argument, they try to shut you down by name calling (racist, sexist, etc.). Then, other liberals join in to back up the original lying liberal. Its mob rule and that is how liberals today operate. They always protect each other and circle the wagons if one of them is ever challenged.

Today's liberals are more progressive and extreme. They're authoritarians and will resort to violence and character assassination if you don't agree with them. This happened during the Obama error. They are deranged people. Men can be women, women can be men. There are 35 genders, or however many we up to now. They want to destroy America, our history and traditions.

Republicans have come a long way since GW Bush. Bush was a liar too. He represented the old country club Republican party, the war machine. Trump destroyed that part of the Republican party even though some RINOs still remain today. The Republican party has been rebranded by Trump.

There are some real left wing loonies over at iritu. They call this place an echo chamber, but they're the ones that are that. It looks like facts don't matter over there. They can't get over their Trump hatred enough to recognize that the economy was great before the virus and is making a quick comeback. Do they really think Demento Joe is going to do anything for this country? I don't get it.

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"Republicans have come a long way since GW Bush"

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Wednesday, September 09, 2020, 21:35 (16 days ago) @ JoFrance

I agree completely. But this and other factors are a key reason why I don't really support political parties. They're morally fickle organizations.

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Labels shape thought

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Wednesday, September 09, 2020, 22:22 (16 days ago) @ JoFrance

Language shapes thought and thought shapes language, said Orwell, IIRC. I'm pretty sure that was in Nineteen Eighty-Four.

The people you're referring to are collectivists in that they hold the group above the individual. I agree completely with you that they gang together. Anyone inside the group is right regardless of truth, anyone outside the group is wrong regardless of truth. It's an evil mentality. The word liberal has too many meanings to be useful.

And notice how I politely refrained from saying that Americans have been using it incorrectly for nearly a century anyway ;)

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Point Taken - Collectivism

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Wednesday, September 09, 2020, 22:46 (16 days ago) @ ,ndo

Yeah, that idea of language shaping and constricting thought is the core of 1984. It's the entire reason for Newspeak.

That is really the issue. The proper name for the madness we have now is collectivism. There's absolutely nothing liberal about today's liberals.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

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Point Taken - Collectivism

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Thursday, September 10, 2020, 00:01 (16 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

It's the entire reason for Newspeak.

Succinctly put.

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haha, timing

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Thursday, September 10, 2020, 01:29 (16 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

Haha how's this for timing? From the Lane 1943 book:

They also knew the meaning of every word they used; they knew its Greek, Latin, or Anglo-Saxon root. Until forty years ago, this knowledge was still considered of first importance in American schools. Every pupil, at thirteen and fourteen, learned etymology as he had learned spelling since the age of six, by dogged repetition until the facts were fixed in his mind.

Today the confusion of the meaning of words in these United States is a danger to the whole world. Few American schools any longer require a pupil to dissect his words to their roots, and to know what he means when he speaks. And for twenty years the disciplined members of the Communist Party in these States have been deliberately following Lenin's instruction, "First confuse the vocabulary."

Thinking can be done only in words. Accurate thinking requires words of precise meaning. Communication between human beings is impossible without words whose precise meaning is generally understood.

Confuse the vocabulary, and people do not know what is happening; they can not communicate an alarm; they can not achieve any common purpose. Confuse the vocabulary, and millions are helpless against a small, disciplined number who know what they mean when they speak. Lenin had brains.

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haha, timing

by Pepe the Programmer @, Süm Fäggöt and Disloyal Actual Retard, Thursday, September 10, 2020, 01:50 (16 days ago) @ ,ndo

And ,ndo, according to Iritu members u r a Nazi. For quoting that.

How dare you reason in their presence.

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I vill trransmit this information to Vladimir.

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haha, timing

by ,ndo, Shit for brains, Thursday, September 10, 2020, 02:48 (16 days ago) @ Pepe the Programmer

How dare you reason in their presence.

Just leading by example, mate.

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