Latest Official Disclosure that there is no Epstein story - P.A.G.A.N.

I have a concept of why the administration and DOJ have flip flopped several times on the Epstein narrative. Going from "we have the (unseen) files" to "Epstein had absolutely nothing weird or unseemly going on and the poor billionaire chap killed himself in jail and stop asking questions it's unpatriotic and MAGA MAGA MAGA."

I think it's like this.

1) Actual Epstein clientele no doubt extends to the top levels of business and government. People at the rungs immediately below, say, Jamie Dimon. CEOs and presidents of corporations that many of us would recognize.

2) Actual disclosure of Epstein material would create an *imperative* to prosecute. Take a fictitious example. Suppose (say) Mark Cuban was implicated. There would be a good sized contingent of citizens who would demand that Mark Cuban be brought up for charges and detained until trial. And by definition any substantial evidence of serious crimes demands a grand jury. To simply ignore documented evidence of crimes is not permitted in our system. And there would be a TON of momentum in favor of prosecution.

3) Now imagine all of these (probably a few dozen) CEOs and politicians being hauled out of their occupations running a large chunk of the US economy, and placed in confinement or house arrest until trial. They're ALL flight risks because of their wealth.

4) Trials would literally take years. There are probably not enough venues for trial in the US to process that many case, so the cases would be serialized, a few at a time.

5) Meanwhile: a large part of the US economy and some of the federal and some state governments have been decapitated. "Decapitated" in the cold war military planning sense of top level command and control being cut off. Of course every large business will have a succession plan for the CEO. But still you have a huge disruption in day to day operation of the countrfy.

I basically believe that factual disclosure of the Epstein list and the biggest violaters would immobilize the US economically and politically. "He raped 11 year olds? Well, you must indict." Repeated perhaps 50 times or more with some of the most influential people in the country.

This is what I think the functional impact would be. There would of course be a cultural revulsion and reaction that would make politics and culture more toxic than it is now.

I believe the non disclosure and denial of Epstein is a pragmatic, not principled choice and probably comes from Trump's level... or above.

In other words justice can't be properly served without cratering the US system. Therefore the facts have to stay buried.

I hope this logic didn't bore anyone here and you actually engaged with the idea in order to comment on topic and not just blabber about what scum Bongino and Patel are.

I'm not blaming Bongino or Patel for any of this. This blame gets repeated constantly now.

I assume they are operating under orders from the very top.

At worst they're stooges and accomplices, at best they are being told what to say under duress.

Given their body English when confronted by the Fox reporter a month ago or so I say they are under duress to suppress the dirt. In fact they both looked terrified or under serious stress.

Makes sense! These aren't the same guys that talked tough on conservative talk radio or shows like Steve Bannon's war Room.

IMO the United States is well beyond reforming. Corruption is embedded and rule of law is conditionally based on pragmatic considerations. Any appearance otherwise is theater.

The coverup is not about the particular individuals who are on a blackmail list. So ignore everything I wrote, lol.

The coverup might be this instead:

To not disclose that top branches of the US, Israeli, or perhaps other governments were deeply involved in utilizing Epstein's expertise.

IOW disclosure would invariably compromise any sense of justice or due process claimed by the involved governments.

IE: what if the CIA controlled most of Epstein's activities? Or the FBI? Or the Justice Dept?

This could bring a government down.

I think it's a self evident truism that there IS a cover up. It's to protect either the entire system (in the form of prominent individuals who "run everything") or it's to protect the reputation of (probably) the US government.

It's definitely NOT the case that there is no cover up.

I thought it was common knowledge that Epstein was a black op. Compromise people so as to control them. Kompromat. Why else would he be allowed to roam free?

No?

I thought it was common knowledge that Epstein was a black op. Compromise people so as to control them. Kompromat. Why else would he be allowed to roam free?

Exactly, that has been the narrative from the right for years.

The other day Trump was asked about Epstein in a press conference and he waved off the question as stupid and irrelevant.

After months of public statements that they had the files, that disclosures were forthcoming.

It's as much out in the open totally obvious gas lighting as the white house claiming that Biden was normal a few years ago.

Conclusion: Trump is not truthful when it does not suit his purpose. Unfortunately, I now have to be as skeptical of anything he says as any lib.

Trump has entered a no-credibility zone. I won't believe one thing this man has to say about the economy, foreign wars, etc. The time of faithfully sniffing Trump's farts is officially over.

I read several times that that Epstein was part of Mossad. I'm sure anything of importance he had, like the client list, was taken years ago. Maybe it was destroyed, maybe it was kept for nefarious government purposes in the future, like blackmail.

When Bondi, Patel and Bongino started their investigations, they probably didn't have all the information and they never will. Epstein died in 2019, so that's a lot of time gone by.

Trump didn't want to talk about Epstein because it was a cabinet meeting about their accomplishments. Maybe it wasn't the right time for that for that subject. Trump had a different idea for the cabinet meeting.

Jo, what you wrote is 100% total cope.

Trump was utterly condescending for his "you're still talking about this guy" brush off.

Why is Ghislane Maxwell serving 20 years for trafficking and pimping?
Why did Virginia Giuffre get killed (as family says)?
Why did Prince Andrew basically get ejected from the royal family?
Jamie Dimon (CEO of JP Morgan) is claimed to have paid $290 billion to victims as payout because the bank supported Epstein's operation. Why?

etc etc etc

Again, and I know you will deflect:

This entire episode indicates that Trump is not to be believed literally or even in spirit. You disagree. You will find some crumb that exonerates him. NO. Trump == solid bullshit artist.

I don't have TDS. I'm saying his vulnerability to lacking logic and making stuff up as he goes is abundantly clear.

I don't believe the B.B.B. was formulated with a real notion that the deficits would be made up. A few days before this whole Epstein thing I was thinking "he knows what he's doing". I now think otherwise. Trump makes shit up as he goes. Period.

I think Thomas Massie was right to resist and is principled (unlike your take) and Trump went complete ass wipe in primarying him (we see the anti Massie ads locally here - they're nasty.) Trump attacking a loyalist. That says it all.

I suspect Trump will orient things for hyperinflation as a solution to the debt. While claiming he is fixing things. So I cannot trust him to keep us whole.

We're somewhat better off for many things Trump has done for the country, for some of the things being done to hold the last admin accountable, etc. We're maybe better off than with Kamala. There is marginally more justice now.

The Trump administration is pushing into dystopian territory.

I don't know, maybe I am just better informed and I am not being condescending.

I wish we had critical thinkers on this forum, and not just me.

Trump was speaking to a reporter who wanted to ask Bondi about Epstein. He was irritated, no doubt, but wanted the focus of the meeting to be about the cabinet's accomplishments. The last thing he wanted to talk about was Epstein because he's hiding the truth, for whatever reason. After promising total transparency, its not a good look for him.

Yeah, Trump bullshits a lot. He exaggerates. So, no tax on Social Security which he touted many times while campaigning turns into an additional $6000 tax deduction for seniors. Thats still good but not what he promised.

Trump plans to grow the economy to reduce the debt. His tariffs on other countries has been bringing in billions of dollars every month and are successful, so far. He has trillions of dollars in new US investments promised from various countries and companies because they want to avoid the tariffs. Between that and downsizing the federal government should help, but he has to fight various judges every step of the way.

You may think I'm not informed, but I look at Trump differently than you. He's focused on moving his agenda forward and the press wants to talk about Epstein at a cabinet meeting. Epstein is the elephant in the room, but most of it has to be hidden from the public, so it must be really bad. I'd rather save that for another time and keep the focus on what the cabinet is doing. The press wants to change the subject. Trump knows the game.

He was irritated, no doubt,

I could give a rat's ass that he's irritated. He can take it out on one reporter but everyone with a brain is asking exactly the same questions and I don't care if the time was inconvenient for him.

The last thing he wanted to talk about was Epstein because he's hiding the truth, for whatever reason. After promising total transparency, its not a good look for him.

I'm glad you stated that. It has been beyond obvious that the administration is hiding the truth. Talking around it as "well, they probably don't see incriminating evidence" is the territory of sniffing farts.

Trump does absolutely seem to have a dictator mentality - he wants the questions to go away because he says so.

He's losing anyone who believed in him. Not because he's got a dictator mentality. I knew that already. BECAUSE HE'S NOT BEING STRAIGHT. This administration is supposed to be "most transparent in history".

Yeah, Trump bullshits a lot. He exaggerates.
Trump plans to grow the economy to reduce the debt.

Put the two together and you believe "he plans" is a certainty?

Well, at least he's stating that good for the citizens of the US is his goal.

I still fear his doing anything he likes with the Fed. I honestly think that the Fed avoids lowering interest rates to avoid higher inflation that runs away. Trump is a bull in a china shop. He has dead certainty on subject matter that few of us really understand, much less him.

He understands money but IMO Trump doesn't have the intellect to understand the mathematical implications of the debt, esp the exponential nature of the debt if it runs away.

His tariffs on other countries has been bringing in billions of dollars every month and are successful, so far. He has trillions of dollars in new US investments promised from various countries and companies because they want to avoid the tariffs.

THAT I agree with. The US is a net importer country. Tariffs can only help us rebuild an industrial base. Other countries retaliate, it's in relatively few sectors.

One possibility is Trump is hiding the truth to protect Israel. Epstein supposedly was part of Mossad. Considering his great wealth, where did it come from? He was a Math and Physics Teacher with no college degree who was hired to teach at the Dalton school where Bill Barr's father was headmaster. That's a pretty cushy position considering his lack of a degree, but it certainly doesn't explain his great wealth.

Trump is laying the foundation to grow the economy. He's bringing manufacturing back to the US which will benefit the country immensely. Its a certainty and I have no doubt he will be successful. Trump has bought fairness to trade with other countries. The US has allowed itself to be ripped off for years, especially by Europe. They charged us high tariffs, as well as a 10% VAT tax on top of that.

Fed chairman Powell has to go. Our interest rates are too high and its stifling growth and killing the housing market. Powell is keeping interest rates steady because he's political and wants Trump to fail. He blamed keeping the rates high on repercussions from tariffs, but that hasn't happened, so politics is the only reason for the high interest rates. If there was a problem with inflation in the future he could always raise the rates at that time, but the tariffs have been proven to be very successful, so far.

Trump is very smart and has great instincts. He's big, bold and a risk taker. That's the mentality needed to deal with the tremendous problems in the US and the world right now. We're so lucky to have Trump and his Administration leading the charge. They all want to fix the country and its a mess from top to bottom. I think we have to trust Trump on this even though I know it'll be rocky ride.

I wish we had critical thinkers on this forum, and not just me.

Go fuck yourself. OK not really but please do get a grip on reality. I really am not very happy with this remark. I have spent years laying out the groundwork for how things truly operate. I got very little traction, that's ok, different people have different opinions and if theirs differ from mine, that's life. But don't tell me that I and others here do not think things through. We're not stupid and we're not shallow.

As far as Trump goes, he consistently says things that are contradictory. Pretend you are Trump, could you do anything differently? He is opposed by hundreds of thousands of decision makers at every level in every branch. The number of his decision-making allies is dwarfed by comparison. It's not easy.

My approach is to judge him not now but at the end of his current term. His first term was marked by political naivety. He spent Biden's term learning his lessons and developing some necessary relationships. His second term has started with some progress. Let's see where the US is at the end of the term.

Interesting theory. Despite your criticism of Trump, you didn't accuse him of being on the list as so many (even many MAGA people) have claimed. If he himself was on the list, the Biden DOJ would have locked him up, so that claim makes no sense.

Trump has no personal stake in this. His role is that he has apparently directed a total cover-up.

I'm still MAGA. I'm not so much on the Trump train any more aside from believing that he will probably do net good for the country in his term. He has a huge ego, he's narcissistic enough to primary a representative that voted his conscience (Thomas Massey - they show the ads here and they are ugly), and Trump makes shit up as he goes. Trump is 100% "improv".

Benny Johnson: I Found Out Where the Files REALLY Are | 'This is NOT Over…'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4OFs4DN2GU

(he gets overheated in this one. Benny may transform into Alex Jones at some point.)

Synopsis:

The FBI does not hold evidence. Evidence is held by the Dept of Justice, namely the Southern District of NY.

Ghislane Maxwell was prosecuted for supporting the Epstein operation. She owned a 100 page notebook of 2000+ top people in the world in all fields who were Epstein clients/"friends".

The SDofNY (where her trial was conducted) has physical possession of the materials. Since Maxwell may appeal at some point, they HAVE to retain the evidence.

If the evidence was good enough to get Epstein's helper 20 years in prison and since there is an actual notebook of clients, it's plenty enough to determine who did what. Even 6+ years later.

This information did not go away, rot, just vanish, etc. Most likely it exists for legal reference.

I didn't listen to the video yet, so thanks for the synopsis. Maurene Comey is involved in sealing the evidence in the SDofNY.

From Brave AI:

"Maurene Comey, a prosecutor in the Southern District of New York (SDNY), is reportedly involved in keeping certain Epstein-related court filings and evidence sealed.

Roger Stone has urged President Trump to direct the Attorney General to instruct the SDNY to unseal and release the search warrants executed on Epstein’s private island and Manhattan townhouse, as well as grand jury testimony.

These documents remain sealed by federal prosecutors, including Maurene Comey.

Epstein's files, which could expose some of the most powerful people in the world, have not been made public despite the high-profile nature of the case.

Maurene Comey has been with the SDNY since 2015 and was a lead prosecutor in the case against Ghislaine Maxwell, and was involved in the prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein before his death."

Perhaps he is afraid for his life, literally.

The six Secret Service agents on duty at Butler PA on the day of Trump's "assassination rally" were just suspended. WTF???

That entire investigation stinks as much as the JFK single shooter premise. They're going with the "skinny dweeb on top of a pole barn shoots like a professional marksman" narrative.

While I've trashed Trump's honesty and integrity perhaps actually he was told that he must not release Epstein material under threat of death and/or dispatch of his family.

I'm now assuming that Trump has hidden masters. He has strict boundaries in which he must operate.

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P.A.G.A.N. - People Against Goodness And Normalcy

Latest Official Disclosure that there is no Epstein story (Public Board)

PS

PS

PPS

Or, alternate explanation

Or, alternate explanation

Mass, out in the open gas lighting from the Trump admin

Mass, out in the open gas lighting from the Trump admin

^ All I can say is: (well, a lot)

^ All I can say is: (well, a lot)

^ All I can say is: (well, a lot)

^ All I can say is: (well, a lot)

^ All I can say is: (well, a lot)

Mass, out in the open gas lighting from the Trump admin

Right exactly

Good sounding theory: where the "files" are

Good sounding theory: where the "files" are

One more thing on Trump