Right-Wing Warfare Pits Big Tech Against MAGA Over H-1B Visas (Public Board)

by IT guy, Friday, December 27, 2024, 22:50 (213 days ago)

Elon and Vivek seem to be in favor of H1Bs and other MAGA people are furious. The mainstream media is getting a kick out of this. It took this to get them to FINALLY report on this issue after all these years:

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https://www.newsweek.com/h1b-immigration-visas-india-elon-musk-vivek-trump-2006308

This is allowing Nikki Haley of all people to come across as a voice of reason:

"There is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. We should invest in and prioritize Americans, not foreign workers," she wrote, in what amounted to one of the first big attacks on Ramaswamy and Musk from the right.
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Ugh.

Steve Bannon has even criticized Musk.

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https://www.newsweek.com/steve-bannon-elon-musk-h1b-visa-2006627

"H1B Visa Program Should be Zeroed-Out —Used to Constantly Drive Wages Down and Replace American Tech Workers —the Foreign Worker Replacements are Treated Like Indentured Servants..." Bannon posted Friday morning.
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I know Musk helped Trump get elected but wonder if he's gained too much influence. Hopefully Trump makes the right decision(s).

Right-Wing Warfare Pits Big Tech Against MAGA Over H-1B Visas

by FSK, Friday, December 27, 2024, 23:53 (213 days ago) @ IT guy
edited by FSK, Friday, December 27, 2024, 23:59

The fundamental problem with the debate is the misrepresentation of the pro-H1b side.

These H1bs are going to geniuses!

There's a separate visa for that, the O-1. The visas are used to import labor for relatively routine software work.

Most of the people on an H1b visa are average or below-average. The only reasons they're hired are:

- Clueless management thinks cost paid per hour is the only measure of worker productivity.
- The indentured servant status of the H1b worker makes them more attractive than a similarly-qualified US worker, or even a more qualified citizen worker. The H1b worker has little leverage to switch jobs, which means he doesn't need to be given raises and promotions. The H1b will put up with much abuse, because if he's fired, he has a narrow window to find a new job or lose his Visa.
- The executive who fires his "overpaid" workers for H1bs generally will pay himself a huge bonus, and then have a better job by the time consequences roll around.
- In most industries, there are no consequences. Most industries in the USA are an oligopoly, where a few large players control almost the entire market. If they all make the same bad decisions, they aren't punished in the market. They all hire the same "management consultants" who advise them to fire their US citizens and replace them with H1bs. It's only certain industries, like Boeing or Knight Trading, where there were high profile flops.
- Very often, the H1bs are hired through multiple layers of outsourcing firms, where 1-3 corporations stand between the client and the worker. In many cases, I bet there are under-the-table kickbacks to the executives hiring the H1bs.
- Once you have an Indian hiring manger, they frequently are racist and only hire other Indians. People like Elon Musk are accusing H1b critics of racism for pointing this out. I go on job interviews and the entire floor, 100% of the people, are Indian. The H1b visa is not used to supplement the US worker (as advertised). It's used to replace the US citizen worker.
- The Indians will also cover for each other's incompetence. This further reduces any actual savings due to hiring H1bs. India has a high culture of corruption. It's commonplace for one person to show up for interview and a different person shows up for day 1 of work. It's embarrassing to fire someone for doing that, so sometimes they get away with it.

I'm someone who probably would be eligible for an O-1 visa if I wasn't already a US citizen. I've been out of the software industry since age 40, unable to find ANY software job at all. I now work in a software-adjacent field, data scientist/analyst.

You could say "Well, the reason FSK couldn't find a software job is because he's a loser. It has nothing to do with the millions of H1bs that flooded into the country in the past decade+. All of them, every single one, is more qualified than FSK." I know that's a lie, but the H1b advocates say that with a straight face.

When an H1b is hired, the person who loses out is the marginal worker. Someone age 40+, someone with "not trendy" experience, someone from a low-ranked university. Those people struggle to get jobs. It's ignorant of basic economics to say that the H1b isn't at least partially responsible for their struggles in the job market.

If Indians really were "better tech workers" than US citizens, then India would be the country with the multi-trillion dollar tech industry and US citizens would be moving to India to get jobs.

Another nasty thing Elon Musk did is he suspended the Twitter accounts of people who disagreed with him on the H1b issue. So much for "free speech". One example is Laura Loomer.

The H1b issue is unfortunately bipartisan. Both major parties support it. Big tech has lobbyists, and your average working stiff does not. I don't expect any progress on limiting the H1b program.

“I will go to war for H1B” - Elon Musk

by IT guy, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 11:45 (213 days ago) @ FSK
edited by IT guy, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 11:54

Musk also posted this on his X account:

“The reason I'm in America along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strong is because of H1B. Take a big step back and FUCK YOURSELF in the face. I will go to war on this issue the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.” - Elon Musk

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Another nasty thing Elon Musk did is he suspended the Twitter accounts of people who disagreed with him on the H1b issue. So much for "free speech". One example is Laura Loomer.

Yikes. I wonder if Trump make a "deal with the devil" so to speak. I respect Musk's intelligence but he comes across as another guy that wouldn't hesitate to sell the middle class down the river just to pad his bank account.

You hit the hammer on the nail. I'm in the same category (over 40) and can definitely relate as I'm in software support which sometimes means babysitting the H1Bs. It's frustrating when you're dealing with a number of H1Bs to make a simple change that I could make myself if I had the access. It's not my company though so as long as they're paying me, I don't give a shit anymore.

If Indians really were "better tech workers" than US citizens, then India would be the country with the multi-trillion dollar tech industry and US citizens would be moving to India to get jobs.

The H1b's I have worked with were unspectacular at best, most were incompetent.

The H1b issue is unfortunately bipartisan. Both major parties support it. Big tech has lobbyists, and your average working stiff does not. I don't expect any progress on limiting the H1b program.

Unfortunately you're right. There won't be any movement on this on either side of the aisle.

The Trump administration is much better than the alternative would have been but I wouldn't say that I'm too optimistic that they'll accomplish much that will benefit the middle/working class. If they do have any ideas that actually benefit the American people, good luck getting the RINOs in Congress to go along with it. Hopefully they will at least do something about the immigration problem and get the economy moving again. The economy seems to run best when there is gridlock in Washington anyway (i.e. Clinton administration, Trump first term, etc).

BTW it's a good thing that the visa thing is getting so much media coverage. It's about time.

Trump's 2016 position on visas

by IT guy, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 11:56 (213 days ago) @ FSK
edited by IT guy, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 12:02

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2024 position? He hasn't yet addressed the comments made by Elon or Vivek.

Trump's 2016 position on visas

by FSK, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 12:53 (213 days ago) @ IT guy

Trump already fixed the problems with the H1b program during his first term in office. That's good to know. Why are people still debating this?

I expect nothing meaningful to happen. People are outraged about the H1b issue now, but they'll forget it and move on to the next issue in a few days.

Large corporations have lobbyists, and the average working stiff does not. I don't expect any real improvement on the H1b issue.

Right-Wing Warfare Pits Big Tech Against MAGA Over H-1B Visas

by JoFrance, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 19:33 (212 days ago) @ IT guy

Do any of the many jobs listed in this database look like they require extraordinary talent? I don't think so.

https://h1bdata.info/

Trump seems to be in favor of H1bs this time around. He uses them too in his businesses. The problem is the program is abused in a big way and there is no appetite in Congress to fix it. There never has been for as long as I can remember. Their excuse for hiring them is always Americans aren't as educated or intelligent as our foreign competition. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They are just cheaper labor, almost indentured slaves, for these companies or they lose their visa.

They'll never get rid of this program but it has to be curtailed. Foreigners seem to get first dibs on all of the jobs instead of giving an American a chance. Why doesn't our government and companies want to invest in American talent? I'd like to know the answer to that.

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Right-Wing Warfare Pits Big Tech Against MAGA Over H-1B Visas

by ,ndo, No refunds or exchanges! Fullstop!, Saturday, December 28, 2024, 20:02 (212 days ago) @ JoFrance

People who come from countries with a lower cost of living (therefore lower wages) will work for lower wages in the new country. One of the pillars of globalisation is importing workers from low-wage countries into high-wage countries, driving down the wages in the high-wage country.

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