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Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews (Public Board)

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Monday, November 18, 2024, 00:36 (253 days ago)
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Monday, November 18, 2024, 00:42

This is fairly humorous, unless you believe I am a scumbag for doing what I am doing, in which case STFU, lol.

This summer I received an invitation to join Amazon Vine. I probably have 50 or so product reviews beginning in 2011 of stuff I've bought and when I submitted a review this last July I got a screen telling me I was selected for Vine and asking if I wanted to join. This was at the end of July.

Heck, yeah, I clicked yes.

Vine is a service that, when you are a member, allows you to basically order from a subset of Amazon products - completely free of purchase price or shipping cost. You're supposed to use the product and write an Amazon review of the product.

There are some catches. Amazon wants your tax information because they will 1099 you for the estimated retail value of everything they send you, if it is over $600 in total by the end of the year. It probably falls under a hobby business classification which basically (according to what I have read) means that you only claim the income but aren't required to calculate and withhold FICA.

On the other hand you can do anything with the product received: use for target practice, give to a charity, or resell. Apparently reselling the stuff has no tax consequence, as long as it is not for more than the estimated retail value, because you have already been taxed on it as imputed income, so it became your personal property.

I've gotten a lot of crap (and good stuff, but really, a lot of crap) from the program so far.

Initially I wasn't thinking of the $600 limit on 1099 income that when exceeded makes Amazon send your income report to the IRS. So I got a few higher value items (as an entry level Vine user you can order up to $100 items and up to 3 items per day.)

So here's the better items in my haulage so far:

A tire air compressor/jump starter combo box.
An exterior motion light.
A 12 VAC transformer for Malibu style landscape lights
A really junky gimmicky assed "fitness monitor" smart watch that was incredibly annoying to use and which weighed a lot more and was a lot larger than any decent watch.
An extra laptop power supply for my laptop
A two burner propane stove
Latex palm work gloves (set in a box)
Solar panel mounting brackets
Fermenter lids for making sauerkraut, etc in mason jars
Solar panel power connectors
Glue for phone screen to replace battery, etc
Propane adapter hose from 20 lb tank to 1 lb tabletop appliance output port
A nice bluetooth headset
A lavalier microphone set for video blogging, etc
A lot of parts such as specialized screws and collections
A TON of health supplements

It turns out that certain items such as anything health related *and* wearable (example: sleep masks, blood pressure cuffs) have zero estimated taxable value. or anything consumable such as gummies, vitamin and mineral supplements, etc.

So right now I am up to 45 ordered items.

Why I am I keeping up this pace? because Amazon has a cycle where they re-evaluate Vine users every 6 months. At review time they will promote you to "Gold" Vine status, if you have ordered, received and reviewed 80 items *and* 90% of items that you have ordered.

Gold Vine means I can see and order free items of ANY value, well over $100. Cameras, computers, etc

Therefore I am now sprinting by ordering 2-3 health related items per day (zero estimated value where possible so I don't run up my tax report sum) and reviewing them like mad so I can meet the 1/25/25 review deadline for my account.

Here is where the grift comes in:

I am using AI bots to write the reviews. This is allowing me to churn reviews of products that I have no intention of using or consuming (examples: hemp gummies, vitamins, CBD drops, diabetes instruments such as lancing devices, etc)

It turns out that free publicly available AI engines are *incredibly* good at this point, scary good, to the extent that writing should soon become a non paying activity. I can whack out a really good review with the one I'm using in about 5 minutes.

Basically the work flow is like this:

Initially I Googled for AI review writer and got some hits.

I picked this one: https://toolbaz.com/writer/review-generator

(there are many)

I input a text description of the review I want. Example of the input:

(I wrote this) Write a review, limited to 120 words, using the following product description, as a user, in the first person, describing how the product is experienced. Don't sell the product with exclamations or superlatives, stay matter of fact.

(stuff from Amazon's product page for the stuff follows, several long paragraphs)

Why Choose Our Oil of Oregano with Black Seed Oil? Our unique blend combines the powerful benefits of black seed oil and oregano oil, both celebrated for their health-supporting properties. Black seed oil's anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects may aid in managing allergies, digestive issues, and heart health, while oregano oil's antifungal properties make it a potent natural remedy. This all-in-one complex is a cost-effective and convenient alternative to multiple supplements.

(etc etc etc)

So here is the output from submitting the material above:

(AI wrote this) I've been using the oil of oregano with black seed oil for a few weeks now. The drops have a pleasant berry flavor that makes them easy to take daily. I’ve noticed some improvement in my digestion and overall immune support, especially during seasonal changes. The liquid form feels more effective compared to pills, perhaps due to better absorption. I appreciate that it contains a range of beneficial ingredients without any artificial additives. The consistency is smooth, and the dropper allows for accurate dosing. Overall, this product has become a reliable part of my wellness routine, and I find it convenient to have multiple benefits in one supplement.

I did edit some of the text afterward because to me it read a little stiff.

Writing reviews for the health supplements in particular stymies me because there is no bloody way to assess whether they help you without long use and maybe clinical trials. That was my initial target for the AI, and I have written about 10 reviews with the AI engine of those and some other things. So I may as well make up some text artificially.

Here are some facts about Amazon in general, Amazon reviews, and Vine:

This is all cheap crap. (example, the propane stove was defective - I emailed the vendor - they sent me a $40 Amazon card *and* are shipping a replacement stove.)

Reviews themselves are approved by Amazon using AI. I've checked a forum for Vine users and many of them complain about detailed reviews they worked hard on being rejected. So I have a cavalier attitude about the review quality.

In some cases for high quality items I have actually used I put in full effort, even with pictures. A bottle of hemp gummy drops, no. Stuff that has a moderate dollar cost and which I really enjoyed, yes, I review manually.

I did get one review rejection of a supplement that read like hard sales copy. I regenerated the review and toned it down and it was approved.

I don't lie, and I do write many reviews w/o AI.

I'm finding quickly that AI is crazy good at this point. Scary good. So far I have not thrown the AI models off track with detailed specifications of the review I want to have it write. To me it's pretty phenomenal.

Interesting times we live in.

Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by FSK, Monday, November 18, 2024, 09:33 (253 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

AI crazy good.

They are good at writing subjective text, like a review. In a review, almost anything you write will be accepted as long as it's vaguely on-topic.

For things that require precise thinking, the AI still looks like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4OCQYKHPX4

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AI is a job killer

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Monday, November 18, 2024, 12:09 (253 days ago) @ FSK

The Scrabble game example is weird and doesn't match my experience so far.

In the example of Scrabble with Google Bard in this video, the AI isn't following a basic rule of a board game (only squares that exist are playable.) I think the problem specification was probably insufficient and could have been tweaked.

The AI followed my subjective specifications for viewpoint, tone of writing, and limit on words exactly. I was amazed how close it came to something immediately usable.

In the case of writing prose you're disregard the entire realm of subjective text which is almost all business writing in existence.

Even legal briefs and depositions can be written subjectively - they simply need to follow a specified format. (You think anything Jack Smith wrote up about Trump couldn't be codified into an AI? Maybe that's how the charges were started in the first place. An AI said "you could charge him with this.")

Many, many white collar jobs that depend on good written language skills could be replaced with AI + a part time human editor/curator.

AI is a job killer

by FSK, Monday, November 18, 2024, 14:00 (252 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

You still need human writers to train the model. You can't train an AI on AI output, for the same reason you can't keep making a photocopy of a photocopy.

The first generation of AIs were able to train on freely available text on the Internet. They also didn't have to worry about AI output polluting their input data. That isn't the case anymore. If you use random internet posts to train your AI, you're including a lot of AI.

AI is good for non-critical tasks. It still suffers from the "hallucination" problem, where it gives a completely wrong answer with supreme confidence.

You should read about how AI corporations are now hiring an army of writers to help train their AIs.

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AI is a job killer

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Monday, November 18, 2024, 15:08 (252 days ago) @ FSK
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Monday, November 18, 2024, 15:12

Still, it's no different than the learning curves and ramp-up for any industrial process that results in mass production. AI isn't perfect out of the gate but no tech has been.

I still question how much training has to occur. IMO there is so much existing text available that they already have all of the style source that is needed. I queried an AI out of the blue on random subject matter and it created not inspired but not terrible results.

AI is a job killer

by FSK, Monday, November 18, 2024, 15:45 (252 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

What they are promoting right now isn't AI. It's just a very fancy Markov chain generator. They data mined a ton of text, and used it to construct a good probability distribution for "what word comes next". That's all they did.

Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by JoFrance, Tuesday, November 19, 2024, 19:18 (251 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

Vine seems like you have to go through a lot of work for things you don't really want or need. Its got to be time-consuming to handle all those products even if you use AI to write most of the reviews. Its a good idea to utilize AI to help write the reviews.

So, if you get to be a Gold Vine reviewer, how do you know the more expensive items won't be overpriced junk that you'd never want anyway?

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Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Tuesday, November 19, 2024, 19:48 (251 days ago) @ JoFrance

The answer to that question, I really don't know. Initially I thought when I was approved for Vine "who the hell has the time to order and review 80 items to get to the next level?" Well... I do. Lol.

I've read about people scoring decent appliances, computers, and other gear on Gold. That's my motivation.

The time factor works out ok for me. I have to review 80 items for gold. There are at least 65 days until the end of my review period (when they say "pencils down" and evaluate me for gold.) I have already ordered 52 items and done 44 reviews (as counted by their system.)

What is left in my case amounts to less than one item a day that I have to order and have a review approved by that January date. Usually I try to order 3 things at a time (my silver daily limit.)

The only and main reason I'm using AI to generate the review text is because I'm running into items that I ordered specifically because they are zero ETV - such as hair cream, a pair of arm pads for a rollator (fancy walker), and various supplements and oils such as CBD oil and oregano oil, that I have no earthly reason to believe would do a thing for one's health. I have no idea what I'd write and that is where AI comes in. I feel that with this many reviews being submitted in a short time period I may get my reviews manually checked and I don't want a series of "great product, works well" that flag my account. The AI is to make every review look as legit as possible. Even though (LOL) many are not.

And... if I fail to achieve Gold by this next period I am not going to go for it for the next review period. Once is plenty enough. It is some hassle. So I'll drop back to only ordering what I like and actually need.

This Vine stuff would be a good way to develop an inventory for a flea market. Cheap anonymously branded one off garbage.

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Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by ,ndo, No refunds or exchanges! Fullstop!, Tuesday, November 19, 2024, 20:35 (251 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

don't forget to continually monitor "would a human produce this many words in this many days"

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I keep it plausible

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Wednesday, November 20, 2024, 00:44 (251 days ago) @ ,ndo

Notice that in my example I stated to the AI to limit the review length to 120 words. That is an Amazon product review length that literally blends in.

Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by JoFrance, Wednesday, November 20, 2024, 19:17 (250 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

You've come this far, so see if you can get to the Gold Vine. Maybe it will offer better products and make your effort worthwhile. It probably could be sold at a flea market, but is it worth the effort and the time for cheaper items? I don't think so.

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Grifting the system, 2024 Style - Amazon Vine + AI Reviews

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Wednesday, November 20, 2024, 22:39 (250 days ago) @ JoFrance

The main cost: it is soul sucking to order and review cheap crap.

Some stuff is pretty good. Most inexpensive Amazon products actually do seem to be and do what they are claimed.

There is this huge market for skeevy health supplements that Amazon caters to - oils of all kinds, etc - I use AI to write those - I'm quite cautious about what I put into my body.

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