FEMA MIA (Public Board)

by JoFrance, Sunday, October 06, 2024, 18:58 (294 days ago)
edited by JoFrance, Sunday, October 06, 2024, 19:17

I can't remember in my lifetime such an inept and traitorous federal government. Not only have they abandoned the American people in dire need of help after being hit by Hurricane Helene, they spent disaster funds allocated for hurricane season on housing illegal aliens. How can they legally do that? What happened to Congressional oversight?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13920907/biden-harris-money-hurricanes-helene-billions-migrants.html

Outside charities are using mule teams to transport relief aid to the people in the mountainous areas of NC. Private helicopter owners are being prevented from helping people that are trapped by FEMA. Even Elon Musk was prevented from delivering many of his Starlink kits to people who need them. They just arrested a helicopter pilot for trying to deliver aid. Its unbelievable and cruel because the situation is so dire for the people that are trapped. They're not getting aid from FEMA either, so I guess they're SOL.

https://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/1842217665303372243

FEMA MIA

by FSK, Monday, October 07, 2024, 01:54 (293 days ago) @ JoFrance

Is it incompetence? Or are they intentionally letting Republican voters die?

Illegal immigrants - Let's give them free food, free housing, free whatever they want.

Hurricane Flooding - Oh what are we going to do? We can't be expected to help out every person in need!

This is a standard tool in the evil playbook. Feign incompetence when you're doing something evil on purpose. If it's just incompetent hurricane response, too bad, maybe they'll learn and do better next time. If they're intentionally ignoring hurricane victims because they spent all their money and resources on illegals, now there are tough questions that are going to be asked.

Always pretend to be incompetent so you don't get called out for being evil.

There's also private charities that are running circles around the government. Allegedly they're being blocked from delivering aid on their own.

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Letting GOP voters get poisoned at East Palestine

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Monday, October 07, 2024, 03:30 (293 days ago) @ FSK

Another example.

FEMA MIA

by JoFrance, Monday, October 07, 2024, 19:46 (292 days ago) @ FSK

It looks to me like they would rather see those people die because they're Republican voters. I think you're right that the Biden/Harris admin feigns incompetence while the people behind them will do whatever it takes to win. I wouldn't put it past them to use geoengineering to manipulate the storms in the south to achieve their goals.

They are evil and it becomes more apparent every day. They're not hiding it anymore.

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Maybe all of you decided that the feds are just the bad guys period

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Monday, October 07, 2024, 23:48 (292 days ago) @ JoFrance
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 01:10

So maybe another high calorie post is a waste... BUT

Another way to see this is that the assistance is going to be an absolute, complex logistical nightmare, no matter how many resources and $100 of M the federal gov dedicates (or says they dedicate) to the work. It's not just money to be spent, it's using that money to deploy resources (workers/troops/supplies/infrastructure repairs etc)

This disaster was regional: an area that appears to be a few hundred square miles in area. With most likely thousands if not tens of thousands of people either dead (buried in mud, underneath structures, bodies stuck in trees, bodies floating face up in waters, etc) or stranded (such as groups or individuals totally cut off from the outside by roads washed away, new water courses, and no communications.)

I haven't seen any specific statement of the approximate area of the major flood damage. I went to Google Maps on my desktop and drew a rough polygon around all of the "Flood Damage" notes on the map. I got a perimeter of about 320 miles and Maps says I drew an area of 4900 square miles.

[image]

For one thing: absolutely nobody outside of "command and control" for the region's rescue efforts will have ANY idea - maybe not even in the president's office - of exactly who is doing what. This is a similar problem to the armed forces branches seeking interoperability of their C&C systems.

So I surmise that at the very top of the command structure they are not intending to be Stalinesque. They are trying to spread out available resources to so that, for instance, very small groups stranded miles from any working electronics, shelter and food gets SOME attention and doesn't die from exposure. Just dumping a bunch of supplies in parking lots of CVSs and Rural Kings sounds all MAGA and shit but it may only help bootleggers and oversupply those who do not need stuff.

Also traversing this landscape will be dangerous as hell. Quicksand, deep mud, down electrical lines, etc.

I THINK the general approach from the top for this *has* to be to control and delegate operations.

Everyone protesting the treatment of volunteers, locals, donors, and/or other civilians and unfunded aid workers has to understand that the powers that be there don't want to start having to rescue amateurs who get into deep trouble.

This general idea explains why donated supplies are being commandeered. The people in obvious drop points are already fairly OK at least in survival terms.

I'm putting my most optimistic face possible on the conflict between FEMA, local law enforcement, donors, and even private organizations that are donating supplies.

Nobody on the ground most likely has a full picture where resources need to go "right now", so the authorities at the power apex are overcontrolling everything. Not even Trump or Musk, unless they are being fed current inside information about wastes and laziness of the system. People will see what they experience: like the private pilot that wanted to fly in to rescue some guy and the police said they'd arrest him on the spot if he took off.

Also, FEMA does confiscate supplies even from individuals, at other times. They are pricks if you are well prepared enough to own useful supplies.

IE: I read on Reddit (I think) some Puerto Rican guy posted about being there during a major hurricane. FEMA came in to assist and they took his personal generator. (They screwed him on it: they paid him exact list price but he had to pay $$$$ for shipping offshore to Puerto Rico when he originally bought it.)

Now PERHAPS the point of taking the genset was that the rescuers may run across someone else who needs power for CPAP or oxygen... They need it more than the dude whose property it used to be... maybe.

Maybe. My feeling from stuff I've read recently and in the past is that if there is any way you can rely on your own self, do so --- accepting help from FEMA can screw you over during the emergency because you then open your door to them snooping around on a fishing expedition.

My rosy picture still doesn't address pouring billions of FEMA funds into the hundreds of NGOs that have been grifting off of the southern border situation.

It also doesn't address "they're eating the dogs they're eating the cats THEY'RE EATING THE PETS".

SPRING... FIELD.

OH.. HI... O. Trump enunciates like Captain Kirk at times, lol.

Damn, we're on the map!!!

But just saying, this is a complex logistic problem overall. It's like "let's have a rolling dinner party for 5 million, 1/10 of whom are decomposing". Sort of.

PS not really necessary but: Yes, East Palestine too.

And, the FCC allegedly refused to deploy StarLink base stations in the region due to not meeting some technical criteria. Which is why you had Donald Trump/Elon Musk/a whole buncha volunteers buying Starlink stations out of pocket and handing them out.

FEMA and the US gov disaster relief have stratospheric trust issues with any Americans who are paying attention. Regardless if the confusion and abuse of people on the ground is logically explainable.

Maybe what I said above explains some or all of the chaos and unexplainable delays on help.

Maybe Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's administration is just that fucking callous and stupid.

Unclear at present. Maybe they're just stupid and right hand doesn't know what the left hand etc etc. Maybe our government is Goddamned evil and should be taken down.

Maybe maybe maybe...

Maybe all of you decided that the feds are just the bad guys period

by JoFrance, Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 19:48 (291 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

FEMA could try working closer with local authorities so they know what is needed and where. The problem with FEMA is that its a slow moving leviathon wrapped up in red tape. If they can't do the job they shouldn't prevent others that are more familiar with the area from helping. Its a dire situation and people are dying as time goes by.

This thread really describes the community coming together to help each other. The government help they sent is laughable. They are truly out of touch with reality.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1843659462789476385.html

Stupid and Evil at the same time.

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The biggest facts about this disaster

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 20:52 (291 days ago) @ JoFrance
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 21:16

Agreed. The on the ground stories which include a government helicopter deliberately trashing a parking lot covered with relief supplies greatly outnumber any specific stories about people being rescued.

I buried my lede.

The biggest facts about this disaster and any "relief" are:

1) Even if FEMA were sublimely competent at projecting effective disaster relief and rescue, the overall problem of helping this area would be extraordinarily complex, difficult and costly. I could see it costing many billions to clean up the region. With a "GOOD" FEMA.

Fixing this area so it is habitable and traversable seems about as plausible as a manned mission to Jupiter next year.

2) The region of about 4000 square miles or so has been reduced to a physical state WORSE than pre-settlement. Before European settlers arrived en masse in the 1800s, the area was probably FAR safer to travel and EASIER to build than today. Today you have: miles of disturbed soil/mud; buildings ready to collapse at any time; thousands (likely) of dead rotting bodies; now useless and hazardous infrastructure such as the interstate, highways and roads, etc; HAZMAT hazards. Plus probably thousands of stranded individuals who are exposed to the elements.

I don't see how the region can be cleanly "rebuilt". There are no actual assets there. Everything man made that was washed away in the flood is a liability and not an asset.

Ground up building from worse than scratch.

The biggest facts about this disaster

by JoFrance, Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 21:29 (291 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

They could relocate people to a more inhabitable area with temporary housing that they set up. It'll take years to rebuild any homes there if they even can. The area is known for their high quality quartz.

https://www.mining.com/web/hurricane-helene-halts-quartz-mines-needed-for-chipmaking/

Maybe they don't want to rebuild the town and would rather just mine it.

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Strategy of dealing with the aftermath

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 23:05 (291 days ago) @ JoFrance

I wonder if there WILL be any strategy developed to deal with this region? You've got: land (trashed, needing years of cleanup); people (who need a living and a place to live - I see many moving out - who has 15-20 years to wait for a region to be rebuilt?); natural resources (which would be years/decades from being exploited for legal and environmental reasons.

This is an incredibly complex problem and nobody will be happy with any likely outcome.

What happened is as vast (in a limited area) as the kind of geologic process that came after the asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs, and mud tsunamis blanketed entire continents. The difference there is that the earth had millions of years to recover. NC, GA and TN had a geological epoch happen in 1/2 hour or so.

Strategy of dealing with the aftermath

by IT guy, Tuesday, October 08, 2024, 23:47 (291 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

What's the difference between rebuilding this area and let's say New Orleans after Katrina? Is it the terrain? I see you mentioned quicksand, mud, etc. New Orleans is below sea level so that had its complications.

You're right to question the wisdom of rebuilding. Eventually someday another hurricane will hit. Maybe we shouldn't be rebuilding some of these areas that are so vulnerable to hurricanes.

Just pulled up a wiki on the rebuilding of New Orleans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_New_Orleans

There were lots of complaints about FEMA delays then. Bush was blamed of course so blaming politicians isn't new. Of course he wasn't much more competent than Joe.

This is an incredibly complex problem and nobody will be happy with any likely outcome.


A lot of people were unhappy with Katrina cleanup and rebuilding efforts as well. It's a messy situation even if things are done right.

From what I heard, the weather in that area (west NC / east TN) is mild in the winter and not too hot in the summer. Apparently there is a price to be paid for the nice weather.

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We've visited there (Gatlinburg) extensively

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 00:17 (291 days ago) @ IT guy
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 00:20

Hillbilly MAGA country for shurr.

Nice people generally and quite a different tempo and attitude F2F from up north here in Ohio where THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS etc... I'm pretty intellectual and I disdain stupid shit but that area is special and I love it when we visit. Historian PDQ lives in the general region there and wrote here on the forum about seeing moonshiners handing out samples in public in the middle of the day in tourist areas we are familiar with, and the one moonshiner guy has been featured a lot on "Moonshiners". I fact checked it by digging up some videos... he was handing moonshine out in a tourist trap called "The Old Mill".

I wish H-PDQ were here now to give eyewitness accounts. He would know a lot.

Anyway about your points:

The Smokey Mountains millions of years ago were rugged and as high as the Himalayas, but have eroded over millennia down to no more than about 7000 foot elevation. It's still mountainous as shit there.

As far as "vulnerable" regions - when I've been there I have felt completely utterly safe from natural disasters. The mountains make the region feel cloistered and protected.

Basically I fault ABSOLUTELY no one for living and building there. This storm's effects were the literal definition of "Act of God" - completely random and unprecedented.

My opinion is that if the Smokey Mountains are not completely safe, then where on earth is? It's just this simple: the scenic and rugged mountains caused the flooding by concentrating the flow of water. Like huge funnels. And the videos indicate that the flood waters crashed down some places at over 100 MPH.

Here's a different disaster possibility: the New Madrid fault, close to Paducah, KY. Supposedly it would level masonry buildings far north as... my masonry house here. :-( A major New Madrid earthquake would take down many dwellings and buildings across the mid-south.

As the Bible says, or rather, if I wrote it, it would say - shit falls on the righteous and the unrighteous.

It doesn't matter where you build, you can get fucked. All your stacked silver that guaranteed your retirement - washed down the hill.

We've visited there (Gatlinburg) extensively

by IT guy, Thursday, October 10, 2024, 00:02 (290 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

Seems like a good place for a vacation.

Speaking of Historian, has he ever reached out about returning to the forum?

It's just this simple: the scenic and rugged mountains caused the flooding by concentrating the flow of water. Like huge funnels. And the videos indicate that the flood waters crashed down some places at over 100 MPH.

That sounds (and looks) hellacious. I normally avoid the mainstream news but checked out a few videos.

Here's a quote from one video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVYlgckBvsU

"Helene will be remembered as one of the most devastating storms of the modern era. Many places have been geographically altered and the rebuilding process will take a lifetime".

It doesn't matter where you build, you can get fucked. All your stacked silver that guaranteed your retirement - washed down the hill.

True. If not earthquakes, hurricanes, or floods, there are tornadoes.

I was talking to some guy awhile back at a sporting event, who had his house destroyed in New Orleans. He only got 15 grand from FEMA and the house was worth a lot more than that.

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We've visited there (Gatlinburg) extensively

by ,ndo, No refunds or exchanges! Fullstop!, Thursday, October 10, 2024, 18:17 (290 days ago) @ IT guy

He only got 15 grand from FEMA

but the government will spend billions, tens of billions per year on people in other countries.

The biggest facts about this disaster

by JoFrance, Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 18:52 (291 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

This isn't their first catastrophic flood. There was one in 1916 where the entire area was destroyed just like now and they rebuilt. They didn't have FEMA back then or all the resources we have available today.

https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/hurricane-helene-asheville-1916-flood-worst-disaster-western-nc-history/

Considering the mindset of the people that live there, they will rebuild their community with or without FEMA's help.

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Apples and oranges - today's flood waste products are much worse

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 19:18 (290 days ago) @ JoFrance
edited by Cornpop Sutton, Wednesday, October 09, 2024, 19:29

No comparison. This is a ruined landscape with a ton of man made hazards, and will be difficult to re-develop. It will require much capital, not just the good hearts of down home country folk alone. The locals can proclaim how much they don't need anyone's help but that is not enough.

Back in 1916 the infrastructure was gravel and dirt roads, MAYBE brick or macadam in some town centers.

Today's disaster features enormous slabs of interstate highway and also the many paved secondary roads.

Therefore the debris to be cleared is a couple of orders of magnitude more in quantity than a century ago.

NC today is highly developed, more so than say Indiana. That's a shitload of concrete and asphalt moved around at random that just gets in the way of rebuilding. Back in 1916 NC was the sticks.

Plus collapsed steel power towers, millions of tons of building debris... Power lines, water and sewer lines...

AND - the water such as creeks, ditches and rivers have over the decades been re-routed for roads and buildings. The flood created new waterways. You see survivors saying that in the videos.

How about HAZMAT? HAZardous MATerials. Gasoline, diesel, chemical stockpiles for manufacturers, etc

I totally stand by point #2 which is critical to a notion of the resource and financial challenge of dealing with the aftermath.

I WISH we had honest investigative on the ground reporting, a la Edward R. Murrow and "Harvest of Shame". I'd like to know the facts.

Networks and major news media today do NOT cover actual events, they just handwave other outlet's social media posts and parrot the president's office.

Apples and oranges - today's flood waste products are much worse

by JoFrance, Thursday, October 10, 2024, 19:50 (289 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

There is definitely a lot more infrastructure today than back in 1916. FEMA has to help them rebuild and so does the state. Asheville is a major city there with maybe 100,000 people in need of big time help. The people in the mountains need help too. I don't know how many people live there.

Sadly, we don't really have an inquiring press anymore. They just cover up for Democrat failures. There is alternative media there. SaraACarter.com actually goes there and posts interviews with residents that live there. Nick Sortor is an excellent investigative reporter. Here he is on the Real America show on OAN. He tells the truth about NC and the pictures of the devastation says it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJSEg9dK-KE

They have a long road back.

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Thanks for the links

by Cornpop Sutton ⌂, A bad bad dude who makes good shine., Thursday, October 10, 2024, 22:25 (289 days ago) @ JoFrance

Useful info I did not have and I will read and watch.

OAN has been completely buried and I forgot they were around. I expect any outfit doing what they do to be in prison by now.

Thanks for the links

by JoFrance, Friday, October 11, 2024, 21:35 (288 days ago) @ Cornpop Sutton

OAN has survived. I get it on KlowdTV. Its only $2.50 a month where I live and you get other programming as well. Real America with Dan Ball is a great show on OAN and with KlowdTV you can watch it on demand. All of the shows on there are very in-depth and they give a voice to less known people that would never get air time in the MSM arena. They are the real news people.

Sara Carter has been on Fox News as an investigative reporter for years, mostly on the border, but now she's focusing on NC that was very hard hit. She goes to the hard hit areas.

It really is hard to find the truth today, but its out there.

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