

Lewis Carroll invented preferential voting - how about that
by JoFrance, Tuesday, August 27, 2024, 18:16 (334 days ago) @ ,ndo
The article is behind a paywall.

Lewis Carroll invented preferential voting - how about that
by ,ndo, No refunds or exchanges! Fullstop!, Wednesday, August 28, 2024, 16:11 (333 days ago) @ JoFrance
[Jo, maybe it depends where you're accessing it from, it looks unrestricted to me.]
Australians make too little of the success of our democracy. So it is unsurprising that last month, the centenary of an event which profoundly shaped it passed uncelebrated and unnoticed. On July 31, 1924, the amendments to the Commonwealth Electoral Act which enshrined compulsory voting at federal elections came into effect.
Any well-informed American, British or other foreign political observer or journalist will usually speak of admiration for an electoral system which gives every citizen a sense that they have a stake in the democratic process; one which removes any possibility that the result’s legitimacy might be called into question by claims that, because of variabilities in turnout, it did not represent the true will of the people.
Compulsory voting has had a hugely stabilising effect on Australian democracy. Objections to compulsion are overcome by the fact – as every election pedant will tell you – that the obligation is not to vote, merely to take a ballot paper. It’s such an infrequent and low-level civic obligation that only the sternest of hard-core libertarians would object.
Meanwhile, as is our glorious national custom of taking the pomposity out of serious occasions, election day in Australia is something like a national fete as we troop to schools and community halls to be greeted not just by party workers, but volunteers on cake-stalls, selling raffle tickets and barbecuing the ubiquitous “democracy sausage”. The vaguely festive character of Australian election days is unique.
We insufficiently appreciate how innovative Australia has been in its electoral laws and systems. We were the first to introduce the secret ballot – which became known internationally as “the Australian ballot” – as long ago as 1856, in colonial Victoria. In 1894, South Australia became second only to New Zealand in enacting female suffrage.
By the early decades of the past century, Australia had become a laboratory of democratic experimentation as different jurisdictions not only extended the franchise, but introduced new variants to the standard voluntary first-past-the-post system used in Britain, the United States and elsewhere.
Apart from compulsory voting, our most important reform was the introduction, in 1918, of the preferential method of voting, following the recommendations of a royal commission on elections, which reported in 1915. This innovation has a very strange backstory.
The preferential system of voting resulted from the work of a 19th century mathematician, Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, who spent his life as a don at Oxford’s grandest college, Christ Church. Dodgson, who never married, was happiest in the company of young girls, whom he often sketched and photographed. He developed a particular fondness for the daughter of the Dean of Christ Church, Dr Henry Liddell.
One day in the summer of 1862, he took Alice Liddell (13 at the time), together with two of her schoolfriends, on a picnic, during which he enchanted them with a story about a little girl who fell down a rabbit hole and had a series of fabulous adventures. He turned the story into a manuscript, which he dedicated to Alice as “the love-gift of a fairytale”. It was published in 1865 under Dodgson’s nom de plume, Lewis Carroll. Alice in Wonderland became probably the most beloved – and certainly the most successful – children’s book in the world.
When he wasn’t dreaming up charming stories to entertain little girls, Charles Dodgson was a seriously good mathematician. One of his fields of interest was what we today call choice theory. In June 1874, he published a paper in which he proposed what he claimed to be the most exact method for expressing an ultimate preference among a multiplicity of alternative choices. It became known among mathematicians as “the Dodgson method”.
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Something of an academic entrepreneur, Dodgson did not confine himself to scholarly journals. He published his theory in a pamphlet, which he circulated widely, and also published a version of it in the St James’s Gazette in May 1877. It became known in political circles as well as mathematical ones.
In his biography, Lewis Carroll, Morton Cohen claims that Dodgson’s interest in voting methods had been piqued in the rarefied air of Oxford academic politics. He even suggests that it was originally devised to alter the voting procedures at Christ Church as part of an academic intrigue to displace Liddell, which “grew out of his smouldering animosity towards the dean”. Liddell had long detested Dodgson because of his disapproval of Dodgson’s obsession with his daughter.
Although he failed to usurp Alice’s father, Dodgson’s interest in voting systems grew. He later developed other voting methods specifically for parliamentary elections, one of which he called “proportionate representation”.
When the royal commission on elections reported in 1915, it recommended the adoption of the Dodgson method. (We don’t know whether the royal commissioners were aware that the mathematician who invented it was Lewis Carroll.)
When you cast your vote at the federal election next year, as you munch on your democracy sausage and reflect on the relaxed, good-natured mood of election day in Australia, have a quiet chuckle that the rather strange man who gave us the method of choosing between Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton is the same person who also gave us the White Rabbit, the Cheshire Cat, the Mad Hatter and Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
George Brandis is a former high commissioner to the UK and a former Liberal senator and federal attorney-general. He is a professor at ANU.
Lewis Carroll invented preferential voting - how about that
by JoFrance, Wednesday, August 28, 2024, 19:57 (332 days ago) @ ,ndo
The article is probably restricted because I'm in a different country. I'm glad you posted the text. I never would've thought Lewis Carroll had anything to do with voting systems, but your system sounds like it works well. I like the idea of making it a festive occasion, but how do you deal with cheating and the ability to cheat through various methods?
US elections are an absolute nightmare because of crooked people and a corrupt government. Its going to be a miracle if we can actually have a free and fair election this year. I know there are a lot of people trying to make sure we do, but its a herculean task because of wide-spread cheating by Democrats hell-bent on maintaining power. Its a no-win situation for the people if we can't get rid of them.
Sounds like Lewis Carroll had a real fantasy love affair with Alice

Lewis Carroll invented preferential voting - how about that
by ,ndo, No refunds or exchanges! Fullstop!, Friday, August 30, 2024, 02:41 (331 days ago) @ JoFrance
edited by ,ndo, Friday, August 30, 2024, 03:09
Sounds like Lewis Carroll had a real fantasy love affair with Alice
Yeah it does a bit, eh :)
Its going to be a miracle if we can actually have a free and fair election this year.
On iritu, shylock and some others knew that some rigging had taken place and they were fine with that because the right guy won. It happens all the time, they said(!). That was an eye-opener for me.
Another eye-opener was my misplaced faith in the US Supreme Court. I was unfazed by the dodginess in the lower courts, dismissing cases for lack of standing, mostly, and laches, sometimes. I thought the US SC would sort it out. But no, they were worse! I was stunned, stunned, when they threw out the states' case (Texas and others) for lack of standing. How can a state not have standing in a case about an election conducted in that state?!
My hope is that enough eyes have now been opened in the US that these sorts of things are not attempted again this time around. What do you think?
I like the idea of making it a festive occasion
yes well we're all "suffering" together so we make the best of it. Another aspect is that the prime minister chooses the election date so historically he chooses a date in Spring (or sometimes Autumn) when the weather is pleasant and the voters aren't too cranky about being forced to the local primary school to vote. A sausage sandwich is traditional and when my kids started voting we did buy some.
how do you deal with cheating and the ability to cheat through various methods?
There will always be dodginess. We have it. But it is small.
We are seeing a progressive weakening of our election laws, sadly, and an increase in dodginess. But while growing they are still too small to alter the overall result.
The essentials of our system are:
* we use paper ballots, filled in by hand by the voter (the voter writes the numbers 1 to N in order of preference in the boxes printed beside the candidates' names, there must be a 1, a 2, etc) and deposited in a letterbox-style ballot box - there are any number of candidates on a ballot paper, typically half a dozen on a House of Representatives ballot paper and typically a hundred-odd on a Senate ballot paper (yes it is a very large piece of paper!) - there are no machines of any description - as a programmer I guarantee that the programmability of a device absolutely will be abused sooner or later
* after polling closes, the contents of the ballot boxes are counted by government officials in the presence of scrutineers appointed by the candidates - the results are phoned through to the central tally room (these days, I'm sure they use a computer network instead of telephones but the central point is that the counting is done locally in front of scrutineers, who may query, dispute etc on the spot and have the issue resolved)
* attending the polling place and receiving a ballot paper is compulsory - note that actually filling in the ballot paper is not compulsory - about 5% of voters deposit a blank ballot paper in the ballot box
* the electoral divisions all have essentially the same number of voters - the significance here is that in the US an electoral division for a presidential election is a county, where some counties have ten thousand voters and some have two million voters, and where rigging a small number of the largest counties in the country will control the overall result - our electoral divisions are periodically redrawn to maintain the similarities in populations - currently they are about 110,000 voters each
* the electoral roll is kept up-to-date - within practical constraints it is accurate
* voting on the day is compulsory, with commonsense exceptions made for voters who are incapacitated or overseas or whatever, totalling a tiny fraction of the vote which will not alter the overall result - unfortunately, this is no longer true and there is all sorts of watering down, with the relaxing of the restrictions on early voting and postal voting, and the increasing "trialling" of electronic voting
* we have a Court of Disputed Returns (which is actually Australia's highest court sitting as that Court of Disputed Returns) to hear and determine any disputes
Those are the essentials. I think that any election system which includes these features will be transparent and difficult to subvert.
We have a central body which oversees everything, the Australian Electoral Commission. I imagine a system elsewhere could survive without this central body but issues such as keeping electoral divisions the same size must be solved one way or another.
All of the above refers to Commonwealth (federal/national) elections. We have States, and the state elections are slightly different in detail but not in principle. Our local government elections are completely different. Our Constitution knows what the Commonwealth is and what States are but makes no mention of local councils. Local councils are created by legislation by State governments.
When I was 18 I was against the compulsory aspects. As the years passed I began to see the disadvantages of non-compulsory attendance and the advantages of compulsory attendance.
Lewis Carroll invented preferential voting - how about that
by JoFrance, Saturday, August 31, 2024, 18:54 (330 days ago) @ ,ndo
There was so much cheating in the 2020 US election and it was never allowed to be questioned or adjudicated. None of the court cases were allowed to be heard because of lack of standing, so they were never judged on their merit. There was outrageous cheating in that election because the PTB's didn't want Trump to win. The fix was in for Biden to win. Judges and lawyers were bought or blackmailed to make sure any election-related cases were canceled.
The US is run by a powerful mafia right now that needs to maintain power to avoid accountability. I hope the 2024 election will be fair but I'm under no illusions that it will be. I'm sure not going to believe that Kamala got more votes than Trump in a general election and I don't think anyone else will either..
I like that your country makes voting on the day compulsory. In the US, many states have extensive days for early voting. The voting machines are too easy to hack and manipulate too. They always manage to malfunction during crucial elections in the US when Democrats are losing. We have a terrible system that makes fraud easier. I mean big fraud that could throw an election. I hope you stay with paper ballots and your current system. It works well the way it is.