Opinions on most recent GOP Presidential Debate 11/8/23?

A lot of bad blood between MAGA and the institutional uniparty surfaced and it was GREAT.

The venue, with the moderators from NBC especially liar Lester Holt, was awful. The GOP selects the most right-hostile moderators with a track record of carrying water for progressives and Biden. Last cycle it was Chris Wallace interrogating Trump like he was on a witness stand.

Absolutely fuck the GOP committees for not finding conservative moderators and fuck Lester Holt for being the self appointed spokesman for controlling the truth. Unless, of course, they wanted to control the narrative, which they partially succeeded in but still allowed truth to be said.

The guys on the PBD podcast analyzed the debate's flow and how time was allocated and they made some really cogent arguments. One is that when the debate gathered momentum (especially Vivek attacked everyone else which was morally right, good, true, and honorable) they switched over to some turd like Tim Scott or Chris Christie.

Apparently Tim Scott, the vacuous fence straddler, got the most speaking time, and he speaks slowly. He and Chris Christie have NOTHING to contribute. Neither describes how they will handle issues or crises. Each one blabs hot air about the legacy of America's freedom bla bla bla. Christie's only cred is he is a Trump hater and otherwise says nothing.

Nikki Haley wants WWIII including attacks directly on Iran. Ron DeSatan was Mr Bland, kind of MAGA but also straddling the uniparty/MAGA fence.

To me the sole standout was Vivek Ramaswamy. He rightfully slaughtered Nikki Haley. He also pointed out the bad performance of the GOP chairwoman, who called him an asshole in the audience as overheard and acts like the GOP's campaign money is her private funds. He also got in the face of the moderation team for being one of the networks who sold the Russia collusion hoax to the public.

Vivek hit one home run after another. He said he enjoyed watching the Ukraine hawks tip toe delicately back from their positions as Ukraine is being demoted in favor of Israel support.

If something happens to Trump I would whole heartedly vote for VR. He's making many, many enemies in the campaign cycle, which in this corrupt time is what has to be done.

VR is a disciplined, high IQ incarnation of Trumpism. The same fire, the same almost obvious anger.

Without Trump in attendance, there is zero reason to watch.

We need more voices on our side. We have a fair idea how Trump would have handled the talking points. Not having Trump on the panel lets Vivek shine. I honestly don't see Trump adding to this debate. He and Vivek would dilute each other's performance.

IMO the debate isn't necessary because of Trump's lead and because we have knowledge what each candidate thinks. The purpose of the debate IMO is to have a backup candidate if Trump literally is unable to run.

Ronna McDaniel of the RNC is the one that set up the debates. She's a loser and Mitt Romney's niece (double loser). Her leadership of the RNC is abysmal. I think she's a saboteur for the Republican party.

I can't look at those debates. The only standout is Vivek. I saw clips of him and he was great, but I don't trust him. I don't think any of those people on the stage could fix the country, but Trump can. We need a backup plan, but that would be someone other than the people on that stage. They're in it for themselves and not for the country.

Vivek is very smart and articulate, but he lacks warmth and seems shallow to me. I don't think he would be able to stand up to the deep state. If Trump couldn't run, I think Don Jr. might run in his place. I could vote for him or another outsider candidate to Washington. We need people in Washington with some true grit.

Vivek himself basically says he's the right's Obama, the brown skinned geekoid outsider.

Lack of warmth, yeah maybe. But that doesn't really matter that much to me.

The fact that Vivek essentially trashed the heart and soul of the current GOP kingmaker clique defuses any trust issue, to me.

I would trust him. He's not triangulating shit in order to avoid damage or mincing his words or trying to not offend anyone - he's going for the throat again, and again, and again. That's very very Trumplike.

As I see it he's in politics for one mission, to be the heir apparent to Trump, and not to be anyone's understudy. If this run doesn't work he will probably slide back into corporate life, probably at that point as a high profile donor.

I don't think he would be able to stand up to the deep state.

I think he's showing real guts and courage and is staying consistent where VERY few politicians do. Also questionable how well DJT has stood up to the deep state. Look what's happening to him.

I consider VR like a Trump who is 35 years younger and 30-50 IQ more who is also a FAR more disciplined speaker than Trump.

If Vivek was a viable contender, they would give him the Trump treatment. There is plenty in his background to pick apart that the deep state would use against him. I'm not sure he would hold up to an attack from our weaponized government. He is very young and naive to how ruthless and coordinated they are in their attacks.

Trump knows the deep state well and they know he's out to get them. They're desperate to stop him from being elected with all the lawsuits, but he is such a tempting target for deep state assholes. They expose themselves in the process of trying to get him. In the end, that benefits Trump.

Or powerful in his own right.

I mentioned the utter mediocrity of clown candidates like Tim Scott and Chris Christie. They add absolutely nothing new or original to the dialog about current issues. They just blab Ukraine good, no Israel good, America indispensable, war war war, freedom freedom freedom.

I want the EXACT OPPOSITE of a puppet like worthless Tim Scott in a POTUS candidate.

VR has added a ton of insightful sound bites such as (just one example) honing in on the massively corrupt collusion between some self serving politicians (like Haley) and the DoD.

I want to hammer another point home that you don't mention which I believe is a truism:

Vivek R is effective and disciplined about attacks.

Trump goes all over the place with emotion and doesn't quite have the precise intellect to deliver convincing arguments. When Trump debated Biden in 2021, I thought it was honestly Trump's weakest, sloppiest moments in the campaign, and Biden wound up not doing that badly in those sessions. They just talked over each other, so to an uninformed or undecided voter, they were tweedle dee and tweedle dum.

Whereas Vivek would incinerate most opposition in a one on one debate.

Did you notice that in the "Tik Tok" squabble between VR and Haley, she called him "scum" on camera? She most certainly did after he remarked on her daughter using TikTok.

This PROVES that V.R. cuts to the fucking BONE with his logic. Nikki Haley was STUNG. I never saw quite that kind of immediate hate from any Trump foe.

I'm not taking ANYTHING away from Trump. But he has always had weaknesses in his arguments. Assigning his enemies humorous brand names only goes so far.

Trump was first but he must not be the last.

I love that Vivek is very sharp and how he cuts through the BS. He understands the real issues in this country and outclasses every candidate on that stage when it comes to that. He sounds great and I understand why you like him. I like what he says, but I'm still not sold on him.

None of those other people should be on that stage. They should be backing Trump. If anything, they've ruined their future political aspirations. Tim Scott works as a great Senator in SC, but he could never be president. He did some good things for the black people there, but he is very mediocre, like you said.

I consider Nikki Haley an opportunist who will take any stance if it furthers her chances of winning. She's just another bought-out uniparty member globalist.

Trump is in a class of his own. He has no filter and sometimes doesn't express himself well. He's emotional and passionate which is understandable considering what he's been through. I don't know how he handles it so well but he is the one that can kill the deep state and fix our standing in the world.

The America First movement he created will live on well after Trump. The newer people in Congress embrace that agenda and the rinos that don't support it are retiring or being primaried. Its not going to happen overnight, but its happening.

I know you're a Trump girl. I respect Trump's support base.

In 2015 Trump turned the political world upside down with two things: brash manner, and a very original message and point of view.

I say it's probably political suicide to count on that formula permanently, and Trump called Nikki Haley "bird brain" while hilarious and truthy doesn't quite have the meme magic that his labels did 8 years ago.

VERY quickly the left adapted to Trump and MAGA with counter measures and their own revised ideology that benefits directly from Trump's crudeness.

Trump is EASY to make look bad.

What I get from Vivek's background dossier of sorts is that he did the "Martin Shkreli" (pharma bro) thing and got wealthy by patenting and making exclusive a once-cheap drug of some kind.

So Vivek maybe can be painted as a supercilious douche. Right now, unless we find out about an undisclosed DUI death or something else in his past, he seems pretty clean.

Vivek corrects so many of Trump's bad habits and sloppiness with self control and clear messages. Trump handwaves while Vivek goes in like a guided missile.

I repeat - Trump did undeservedly AWFUL in one on one debate with Joe Biden. They looked like two seniors in a nursing home circling each other. I couldn't tell that Trump necessarily had more clarity than Biden from that debate. And Trump left unclear that Joe was a total full of shit con artist. That is a miserable performance!!!

I'll still vote for Trump, warts and all. But if something happens to him... we need a backup plan.

...I keep saying to deaf ears here. FSK seems to indicate (maybe I am wrong) that Vivek is one of a herd of NPCs "beneath" Trump.

I don't get what planet you guys live on sometimes. "Nope, not gonna listen to him, not my pick".

That EXACT attitude is how we're going to wind up with some shithead like Nikki Haley. Smart people who should support the up and comer with talent refuse to deviate from a pick that may not even be possible.

I repeat - Trump did undeservedly AWFUL in one on one debate with Joe Biden. They looked like two seniors in a nursing home circling each other. I couldn't tell that Trump necessarily had more clarity than Biden from that debate. And Trump left unclear that Joe was a total full of shit con artist. That is a miserable performance!!!

Yeah Trump did himself know favors in that one debate (can't remember if it was the 2nd or 3rd). I am almost embarrassed to admit that I was impressed by Mike Pence, who outsmarted Kamala Harris in their debate, but I guess that's not saying much. Unfortunately his performance was negated by "the fly" and then you know the rest of the story.

Back in 2015, Trump was not a politician. He was a businessman and showman that took a chance by running for president as an outsider. He wasn't politically correct and was unfiltered, which was a blessing and a curse. He learned a lot during his presidency about how the swamp works. Now he knows all their secrets and they're scared to death he might win again in 2024.

Trump 2.0 is running for president now. He will go scorched earth on things like the deportation of the illegals, if elected. Still, this time he is seen as a much more sympathetic person because of how the left is persecuting him. People clearly see the two-tier justice system and black people especially can relate. Things are so bad, even Dems are considering voting for Trump.

Vivek is very smart and articulate, but he isn't savvy. Trump can be sloppy and inarticulate sometimes, but in drawing out criticism of him, his detractors expose themselves to be corrupt, unscrupulous people.

I think Vivek could land a nice position in a Trump administration, but he has much to learn before he could ever be president. He doesn't totally have my trust and I'd love to know more about his associations with India.

,ndo's argument was compelling: Vivek could draw focus off of Trump and then Never-Trumpers get their hooks in and do the uniparty's bidding to kill off his candidacy.

But Vivek, being unfamiliar to unwashed brain dead American voters, loses the general to glamorous and virtuous Gavin Newsome.

Your argument is completely subjective since you haven't cited actual sleaze. You know who else doesn't trust Vivek?

https://youtu.be/IbASgNvmlBE?si=GROWg4j7UhzTvB9f&t=344

But you are entitled to a gut feeling. We all have them.

However, Trump is a well proven quantity going back decades whereas Vivek is not, AND Trump has been labeled an "ahem" real nigga by brothers... so there you go. I can't remember anyone except perhaps Obama who has merited that sobriquet.

All roads lead to Trump. Or else to a communist states of America.

I hope Vivek can be of service by acting as a MAGA attack dog, while not undermining Trump. He clearly states the ethical problems of the opposition.

I look at it this way:

He's relatively unknown because in large part he's so young (38?) He has not been scrutinized politically very deeply or for very long. So he is not known in terms of how he would do long term. (Since he is also so young. That would apply to any national candidate under the age of 40 or so.)

He comes off quite a bit smarmy. He's clearly used to speaking extemporaneously to groups in business settings where he is challenged constantly over details. But that high preparation makes him seem glib. This is functionally a plus that may make him seem suspect to some voters.

He has obvious ethnicity. Nikki Haley is just as Indian but has a more familiar Anglo sounding name. This is a subliminal thing that would affect some voters.

I personally think he has proven himself with his scorched earth approach to campaigning so far. He has positioned himself as a partisan attack dog and he's never going to live that down if he ever wanted to move to a different political role. He's either going to have some role in the next Republican administration or he will not and he will then go back to corporate life.

I consider Nikki Haley an opportunist who will take any stance if it furthers her chances of winning. She's just another bought-out uniparty member globalist.

You know Haley is a uniparty globalist when leftists are singing her praises.

The America First movement he created will live on well after Trump. The newer people in Congress embrace that agenda and the rinos that don't support it are retiring or being primaried. Its not going to happen overnight, but its happening.

There was an article the other day where Steve Bannon mentioned that Trump is a moderate.

“No, farther right than Trump,” Bannon replied. “President Trump is a moderate in our movement. You’re going to pine in future years that you wished Donald Trump was around.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/entertainment/steve-bannon-calls-donald-trump-144138351.html

DeSantis had it made until he decide to run for President.

From a distance...

I have seen him say sensible things, I have seen him really cut the person he's talking to.

But I don't trust him an inch and I think he is a Trojan horse. Divert Trump votes.

First of all - how does Vivek divert Trump votes?

Are you asserting that in the highly unlikely event that VR primaried Trump, that VR would be a POTUS candidate that could not get enough votes to win?

VR has not indicated that he would run as a third party candidate.

Therefore, it seems like his winding up as the candidate who loses is the Trojan Horse.

Unless you have a different thesis?

And can you explain the non trust? He registers as smarmy yes.

I'm not trying to make people agree that VR is the bestust candidate evar, just trying to understand the rejection factor. Nobody will explain their reasoning, it's just because.

(Personally I think VR IS the better executive candidate. More disciplined and nuts and bolts. But he is unlikely to win a general election because he is so unknown. Trump is the more high probability win and has a huge lead. Trump is also probably not as good an executive in practice, maybe. VR just seems to have more mental bandwidth than DJT.)

From what I have seen, he says things that sound sensible or attractive, and he says them articulately. But if you remember the marketing for OS/2, a better DOS than DOS and a better Windows than Window, he struck me as a better Trump than Trump. So I was instantly suspicious. And I don't see love for America. I think Trump genuinely loves his country. I would forgive a lot of faults in a leader who genuinely loved his and my country.

^ Duly noted (not flippant.)

What you said makes sense. It's the worst possible interpretation of his motives but it's reasonable.

I don't think he'll be able to sabotage anything. He needs to claw his way upward in polling numbers, and considering that he's being actively suppressed, that in itself will be a hard job to accomplish.

He would attract votes in the primary, yes. But the larger issue is the permission principle in reverse.

In a crowded room, if no-one expresses a dissenting view, everyone remains silent. But if one person speaks up, that gives others "permission" to agree with the dissenter. It's human nature.

In reverse, people voting for Trump's opponent amplifies the notion that Trump is a non-thing or old hat or the past. The press will leap on the notion that Trump is history. Perception is reality. Ramaswamy weakens Trump. I think this is a strategy.

Amazing reasoning. Ok. I understand. I did not think of this.

Thank you.

So to summarize what you're asserting:

VR weakens Trump because he is an alternative who dilutes Trump. What you said, "finally an end to Trump so he should walk into a running wood chipper ASAP."

Whereas VR does not have the years of exposure in the media and the decades of recognition of Trump. So he will likely lose the general.

In the worst case the right loses, bigly.

Amazing how in life 1+1 != 2. Sometimes 1+1 = -1. Or i.

Great points about Beavis, I mean Vivek. :)

The guy's a homily spewing hot air machine with a mediocre mind who adds absolutely no clarity to the commons.

No loss whatsoever and unlike his statement that 2024 is not Tim Scott's year to run, I doubt any year will be his year to run.

LOL

Seems like a nice enough guy, but yeah, full of hot air and little substance.

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Opinions on most recent GOP Presidential Debate 11/8/23? (Public Board)

No Debate Without Trump

We need a backup candidate

Opinions on most recent GOP Presidential Debate 11/8/23?

Opinions on most recent GOP Presidential Debate 11/8/23?

I still refute that Vivek is not authentic

I still refute that Vivek is not authentic

Trump's Achilles Heel is his Sloppyness and Lack of Rigor

Trump's Achilles Heel is his Sloppyness and Lack of Rigor

Trump's Achilles Heel is his Sloppyness and Lack of Rigor

,ndo talked me out of Vivek fanboyism

Vivek's downsides

I still refute that Vivek is not authentic

I still refute that Vivek is not authentic

Ok ,ndo...

Ok ,ndo...

Ok ,ndo...

Ok ,ndo...

Four dimensional chess

Beavis

Tim Scott dropped out of the race

Tim Scott dropped out of the race